Open letter to Justin Sun and the STEEM community
Following today's meeting of @justinsunsteemit with the Korean community (summarized here https://steemit.com/steemhostiletakeover/@ausbitbank/meeting-between-justin-sun-korean-stakeholders-steem-witnesses-and-steem-foundation-12-03-2020), and the previous ones with the witnesses, I have a few words to say.
The TRON factor
Basically, according to @justinsunsteemit, what's good for TRON is good for STEEM. Well, I totally disagree with that. TRON IS NOT STEEM. STEEM has its own community and mechanics put in place and tweaked through the years to balance usability, reduce abuse and reward milking, without compromising security. I will not support anything that destroys those mechanics to please 1 guy and 3 exchanges. Besides, Bittrex and several other exchanges declared on Twitter they would respect our governance and never interfere in it, so why is @justinsunsteemit still "representing the exchanges" and deciding what's good for them???
The Exchanges factor
Justin Sun: 13 weeks is too long for exchanges to stake
First of all, Justin Sun has no authority to represent the exchanges and doesn't get to dictate what's good for them. Exchanges have no business staking STEEM. In a DPOS system, they would possess incredible power over governance and allow hostile takeovers like @justinsunsteemit did. May I remind you, Justin did the same exact thing on his own chain by using his huge stake to push out SR's and get his way done.
Know this @justinsunsteemit, every major decision that took place on the STEEM blockchain took weeks, if not months of discussions to evaluate the impact, pros and cons. Some ideas came through, and countless ideas didn't. You come into our ecosystem and expect your TRONism to be implemented here, in a rush, under the pretext of "exchanges". If exchanges REALLY wanted things done on STEEM, let them send their own representative to talk to us. The only thing I see here, you only care about TRON and Poloniex (the so called "exchanges"), while you dragged Binance and Huobi into this mess by lying and deceiving them. Not just that, even after they woke up to smell the coffee, you kept doubling down with the lies on Twitter, taking snippets of code, that was never implemented, out of context. Luckily, Binance and Huobi quickly removed their votes after the PR nightmare started for them, and at least Binance finally admitted their mistake, apologized and started their power down. Huobi too is powering down. I don't think Binance and Huobi will play your games ever again, not after the backlash they got from the community, not after you jeopardized their reputation to satisfy your opportunism; why should they listen to you ever again?
The Poloniex factor
So, two of your "exchanges" bailed out on you, and you're only left with Poloniex which is still voting and hasn't initiated a power down. By the way, I'm sure everybody knows that you acquired a stake in Poloniex (https://www.cryptopolitan.com/justin-sun-buys-poloniex-share/). Such a great conflict of interest, isn't it? So my friends, when you hear Justin Sun still talking about "exchanges", he really means Poloniex. STEEM has suffered countless frustrations with Poloniex in past: weeks and months of lengthy disabled wallets, no customer support, lower prices (market outlier). The shittiest exchange on this planet, all of a sudden announcing relisting STEEM and swaps with TRON! That doesn't inspire trust for me, in fact, if it smells like shit and looks like shit, what is it?
The Korean factor
Since Justin stepped into our doorstep, from a shady sale with @ned, all we saw from him was a happy face, with actions that speak louder than words: hostile takeover of a blockchain, labeling the duly elected witnesses by the community as hackers, misleading exchanges into locking up their customers funds and constantly pushing for changes that go against security and abuse prevention. Furthermore, now he's in bed with the Korean community (@proxy.token) is being friendly to them to hold the blockchain hostage to their demands. Not only does STEEM has an external force controlling it right now, but an internal one. The sock puppet witnesses are mainly supported by the following actors: @justinsunsteemit (the ninja-mined stake), @ned (yes, Ned came out of the abyss to shill for TRON, on Discord and Twitter), @poloniex and @proxy.token. Despite the effort by me and several other witness to reason with the Koreans (replying to their posts and participating in their Discord channel), they don't seem to budge and don't seem to understand, but gladly and mutually dance with Justin Sun, he's their savior from those evil downvotes, right?
The Stalemate factor
At this point in time, we're at a stalemate, with roughly 50/50 legit vs sock puppet witnesses, nobody is truly controlling the chain and nobody can hardfork the other. DPOS is still under attack, it definitely needs trustless reform to avoid such an incident from ever happening again. It will take time and careful considerations before any change is implemented. I've said this many time and I repeat it: hardforks with significant changes take lots of time discuss, decide on, develop the code, test, coordinate, update/replay the servers, execute and fix unintended bugs. It's not a simple thing to do, it's not like making toast. We're talking about months of work.
The Invade and Preach model
Justin and TRON kind of reminds me of a certain superpower... it invades other countries to spread "democracy", only resulting in civil wars, division, pillaging, chaos and death. I think we're experiencing the same thing with STEEM. We were a peaceful family, sure with disagreements and internal fights, but we love our STEEM and in the face of invasion, we showed the world that we can put our differences aside, come together and fight to protect our turf. Justin Sun rattled the wrong cage.
The Blue Pill factor
Since his acquisition of Steemit Inc, Justin hasn't been straight forward. Doubtful and conflicting statements mixed with back pedaling and PR manipulations. In essence, he's been trying to force feed us a blue pill. What the hell is going on? STEEM will move to TRON and swap tokens. Oh no no, he wants fast power down so the exchanges get their token back. Oh no no, he's an investor, he's here to make money. Oh no no, he wants to move the ninja-mined stake to the exchanges so he can feel SAFU and develop STEEM so we're all a happy family. How does moving a HUGE stake onto an exchange give any transparency or support for development? At least when @ned was around, the ninja-mined stake was on-chain and we could monitor what was being done with it. Even a little 5-year old can see that the second that stake is moved to exchanges, it's going to get dumped. Why not, some said: "let him dump, we could buy cheap STEEM". Oh yeh? If that happens, price gets trashed, expect more whales (bad or otherwise) to gain more power. And assuming the worst, price doesn't recover and STEEM is destroyed; who would bother buying a coin turned into shitcoin? It's difficult to predict the future and its outcomes, I can only speculate, but always be prepared for the worse and try to prevent it.
My stance on the matter
I previously voiced my position and I'm standing by it. Justin doesn't inspire confidence for me, and until I see some concrete action and commitments on his behalf, I won't believe anything he says. Blue pill ain't my style.
- https://steemit.com/steem/@drakos/q6q1jq (response to Justin Sun)
- https://steemit.com/hive-101145/@drakos/q6ohsq (response to the Korean community)
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Still just talking is circles?? Gheesh...
That's what he does.
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Sitting here waiting for the Communist Justin Shun to be arrested and three exchanges being shut down. The integrity of Cryptocurrency deserves that for this illegal collision. This is why Cryptocurrency will be banned. Just give it some time.... Sell it off before Justin takes your investments to ZERO....Oh and for the Korean's, I thought that they would've learned their lesson from Kim Jung puke but obviously not...
Right On!
We have been saying these same points over and over again. I wonder whether @justinsunsteemit his team is really understanding the turmoil.
I support your words!
All I saw him say is ... I want witnesses to say they respect property rights oh and that he would get a “team”. He didn’t address any of steem/witnesses concerns.
Like a monkey fucking a football.
Yes! Except clearly, I forgot a word.
I really appreciate you took the time to write this @drakos, because I think this clearly states the current situation in a way that everyone can understand. I have tried desperately to remain impartial since the announcement of Steemit Inc sale, as a Witness I fully supported the Soft Fork 22.2 as a preventive measure to prevent a potential hostile take over of the Steem Blockchain. It truly saddened me to see how it divided our community, with arguments for and against. And it really surprises me that after what it was there to protect against actually happened - there are still arguments that it should not have happened. The soft fork did not force this situation, all that happened was nobody realised how much influence over exchanges Justin held.
But trust can not be bought, it has to be earned. I joined the Steem Blockchain in March 2017 (my three year anniversary soon) which was still a year after inception. And since then I have followed many people, enjoyed posts and company made friends and generally found a social platform that is unrivalled. I also am aware of the majority of our Witnesses, and while I do not know them personally I know I trust them with the future of the Steem Blockchain. Through the last years we have seen the Steem Blockchain evolve and grow - and every step of the way it has required hard work testing, adjusting and fixing code - by yourself and all the other Witnesses at the very top.
And this makes me wonder, why would anyone support someone with no history on the Steem Blockchain, a very sketchy past history if you take the time to look, and who's only priority seems to be getting Steem sent out to exchanges in the fastest time possible? Maybe it's time to remove the rose tinted glasses and look at the Sun with a Welder's Glass #14 - so instead of being blinded you finally see the truth.
I support your words.
It is a pitty that the Korean community can't understand why the downvotes are so important.
It will be difficult to change their mind.
Keep pushing @drakos !
#blockchain #community #exchanges #palnet
My God! To return to this 'mishegas' !
As always you want to know what's going on just follow the money
At the end of the day the Steemit TRON Korea Sun story is no different to Scientology, EST etc. A total headfuck where most everybody gets what they deserve for their gullibility - shafted. And the luminaries make off like the bandits they are.
Excellent article @drakos! Anyone who's confused about the current situation should be pointed to this post.
@drakos It is good to finally hear someone drawing a clear line and standing firm to what they believe in. I hear you very well.
Thanks.
Clearly Sun is being encouraged to ignore the many representations of Stinc principals that the stake he acquired has come with obligations to fund development, and so far has avoided any such commitment.
Similarly, the legacy consensus has long maintained a 30x weighting of substantial stake over governance, and dismissed community concerns with a vehemence that raises questions of collusion with stakeholders that have historically controlled governance heretofore. I have raised the issue of equalizing the influence of stake on governance to extreme prejudice, and I presently see that our community is between a rock and a hard place: Sun as a solitary overlord, and a cabal of oligarchs controlling consensus by 30x weighting of the largest stakes on the chain that has traditionally kept them in power, and the vast majority of new Steem created by inflation flowing to those whales.
This is easily resolved by applying nothing more innovative than VP that affects all other voting to witness votes, and depleting witness votes 100%. This enables 1 Steem = 1 witness vote, and User A's 999,900 larger stake will produce 999,900 weight on governance, which reasonably enables DPoS to work.
Absent rectification of this weighting Sun's estimated ~100M Steem hodlings can theoretically bear 3B Steem weight on Steem governance, and not even @freedom and @pumpkin are competent to oppose it because of the 30x weighting Sun's larger stake avails.
Either we stop enabling centralization of Steem governance, or Steem will be centralized. It appears we are presently not being offered any choice of decentralizaton between the blue pills on offer from either side.
Thanks!
I must say, I like this idea of yours.
It's how DPoS naturally is maximally decentralized and each Steem of every user wields equal weight on governance. It's how I think we all expect DPoS works. I haven't understood any good reason for it to be otherwise. I have understood bad reasons for it.
I have been discussing this for weeks, and only @smooth has presented what is a plausible reason for this election mechanism, but what I understood of the risk he discussed it reducing was far less harmful (a 1/3 +1 attack that prevents consensus) than the actual damage this election mechanism has long done to decentralization and now threatens to completely centralize Steem under one user.
If dude ever bothered to read some of those open letters, how can he still be clueless about what steem is?
I personally see no other way out than a chain split at this point.
honestly after the korean community interview with justin almost sounded like a foxnews interview with trump. they kept throwing him soft balls asking him to do things that he already announced he wanted to do in the first place. like wanting to remove downvotes (which is the proof of brain whitepaper concept in the firstplace). when asking about their alternative to preventing identity fraud to be profitable and illegal abuses after the interview they only said we should "educate" our selfs....
then representative of steemit was surprisingly on our side when argueing against justin, and he suggested justin to learn more about steem, and what he knows about tron cannot simply be applied to steem. justin wants a 3 day powerdown time since it worked with tron, but steem and steemit said it would not work, but were willing to compromise to 4 week, while korean community was like ye sure anywhere between 1-4 weeks would work. i would prefer keeping it at 13 weeks :/
it ultimately allows exchanges to keep more of their steem in SP and react to market changes more quickly, while it will also have impact on volatility and steem price...
this
if the witnesses have any senses whatsoever, they burn justin and his stake as soon as they gain the ability to do so
The problem I see is that the reverse is more likely. Sun is buying Steem and we are losing consensus witnesses as a result.
Corporations transfer liabilities with the assets when they are sold. Those promises pertain to Stinc and the founder's stake, not to @ned. Sun and Tron are bound by Stinc's representations to investors because they are Stinc, and Stinc was bound by those representations.
can't argue, and the market dump may have put him in a good spot to buy up more...that is if it didn't catch him with his pants down
which might be a good opportunity for everyone else to buy steem (assuming the crash didnt burn their liquid capability too)
new conspiracy?
justin cooked up corona-chan to crash steem price!
LOL Don't say such things. Someone will believe it.
;>
Everyone deserves a second chance. He got much more than that. But he blew every single one of them. It's over.
Koreans are a part of the Steem community, you can't just ditch them out from the equation just because their interest doesn't aline with yours.
If we are going to start dividing communities according to their opinions this is not going to end well for us.
Their opinions showed us that the STEEM COMMUNITY as a whole is not really on the same page concerning the current events.
You are always trying to be the Avant-Guard person, to prove yourself and make noise. You really should stop fueling the hate between communities.
On the contrary, I have no ill intentions or hate against the Koreans or anyone else. I welcome their opinion and all dialogue. However, their perception of downvotes doesn't align with the majority, remember, the supermajority of the witnesses endorsed free downvotes in EIP and I don't think downvotes will be removed anytime soon. There's always the possibility to control downvotes in SMT's, as it was explained to @proxy.token.
You will never have full unanimity, but the position of the Korean commmunity on e.g. downvotes has been thoroughly rejected. The only reason there is anything resembling a stalemate is that Justin used exchanges to over the chain to enable the "non-voting" Steemit stake to vote, for his own interests which have nothing to do with downvotes. Take that out of the equation and the "remove downvotes" agenda returns to being the dumb and fringe position it was before.
Tyranny of the majority.
Of course, you will never have a full unanimity, I don't see where I did mention the opposite thing. Even though having unanimity doesn't mean that the idea is good or dumb. I also don't remember discussing the downvoting thing above.
I was clearly stating that discussion (regardless of the subject) should not be based on:
OUR OPINIONS ARE MORE VALUABLE THAN YOUR OPINIONS.
or
ANYONE WHO IS NOT WITH US IN THIS WILL BE SEEN AS A TRAITOR.
or
IF YOU DON'T AGRRE WIIT US, IT MEANS THAT YOU ARE DUMB AND WITH NO BRAIN.
Using these retarded approaches will only fuel racism, culture war, and ethnic segregation on the chain. You wanna use hate as a way to hoard the masses? be my guest. Will see how this will work out in the end.
You said
I'm disagreeing. The Steem community is absolutely on the same page concerning the current events, by an enormous margin. Justin is on the other side of the page, and basically no one else.
The only reason there is anything remotely resembling balance is Justin colluding with or tricking the exchanges to deploy the Steemit ninja-mine stake to take over the chain. There is no meaningful Steem community conflict otherwise.
This has nothing do with racism, culture or ethnicity and fuck you for suggesting it.
I'm disagreeing. The Steem community is absolutely on the same page concerning the current eventsI think you are one of those people who sees 49/51, then call it a unanimity or same page.
This has nothing do with racism, culture or ethnicity and fuck you for suggesting it.Because using the number 4 and treating Koreans as a piece of shit, and considering anyone who doesn't post in English as a subhuman is clearly not an invitation for hate. Segregation and culture war is already there, you are just too blind to notice it.
As for the fuck you, I believe Sun took a few pieces from your pride and vanity, and that's enough for me.
Speak for yourself, I've never done that. In fact I have respectfully attempted to engage with Koreans on Steem and reason over some differences in opinion, despite the difficulties presented by the language barrier.
No, just destroyed in an instant of greed and arrogance what many people have worked hard to build for years. Wow, a billionaire can fuck with the #80 ranked blockchain just to show how well connected and powerful he is, and to try to make a little more money. Impressive as all fuck if you ask me. Not.
I don't care if he is Chinese or Norwegian or comes from Mars. He's the same reprehensible piece of trash to me, based on his behavior and nothing else.
Only after you (and almost everyone) understood that they can affect the power balance. No one gave a shit about them before. Am I wrong? I don't remember anyone reaching to Koreans for opinions regarding several changes that happened on the chain. But yea, the worth of your opinion, shity or not, is equal to how much stake you own right?
The root of hate started way before this drama. You can be sure that if the Steem dream is built on a weak foundation, it will eventually collapse. If not because of Sun, then it will be because of something else in the future.
This might not be relevant but I was personally told when I wanted to write articles in my mother tongue and get curated for it that anyone who doesn't speak and post in English should be considered as a subhuman (because knowing English s what makes you human) like if I am representing chimpanzees on the chain, not a community. Funny enough, it was said to me by a witness who runs a huge curation project. But who cares, I am just one low SP guy.
This clearly tyrannical and racism and invitation for hate and violence. If I don't have the power to do something about it, Koreans have that power (at least now). I know you are trying to make things right but this can't really happen if we all keep moving like if we were in havens before. It's sad but a fact to take into consideration while speaking with Koreans that were heavily downvoted before just because of their language (spam aside).
When you disrespect someone or his culture, you can be sure that he will do X once he acquires the power to achieve it. If that disrespect scales to a whole community, then the chain will never thrive and will always be subject to retaliation and instabilities.
It's useless to think that they can affect the situation only because of Sun. It's happening and this is the reality of things. We all lost because we thought that no price will be paid for a lot of things that were done in the past, we are now just collecting the fruits of our doing.
Many mistakes lead to this catastrophe. Sun is just like the guy who assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria in 1914. I can talk to you about greed on this chain, but it doesn't matter. We can talk longly about what happened since the genesis but it doesn't also matter. What he did is wrong, and witnesses did is also wrong, everyone is guilty here. Now either we learn and move on, or we keep getting emotional over who did what.
Then you are one of the few.
People might not care, but they care, I can easily bet on which post on steem people will generously vote on even though other posts are more deserving and of higher quality (but hey why reward people when you can send to null). Racism can be expressed in many ways, and one of them is nucking/ignoring a post only because of the language that was used. When people start using language as a form of ethnic or racial segregation then it's a sign that things are going to the wall.
In the end, what going to happen, a chain split? a unified chain? People think that we are in a war, but I think the community lost years ago before even knowing it.
Now we need to learn from our mistakes and move on, starting the next phase by playing on cultural differences again and bashing other communities is a bad idea. I believe a lot of people aspired to provide a lot more and be more for Steem and on Steem, me included, but were hammered down because of their language, culture or just whatever retarded reason.
I did not cover everything, but some changes are really necessary, and community members like you should be involved in opening such discussions.
Thank you,
Speaking only for myself, you are dead wrong. I'm talking about months ago. This is verifiable on-chain if you want to go and find it.
I stepped down as a witness before all this drama specifically to not be involved, so I have no involvement recently at all, but I'm also not going to sit here and watch you make a bunch of statements and claims that are dead wrong.
Not by me. I've for years supported non-English communities including @cervantes (Spanish) even though I barely understand Spanish, by sponsoring their contests, witness votes, and maybe free delegation (I don't remember that for sure). This is also verifiable on-chain.
In a large community there are all sorts of views and approaches including some ugly ones. If you have gripes with someone else, take them there, don't start throwing bogus racist accusations at me.
In short, please get your facts straight, or shut the fuck up.
I don't remember throwing anything at you retard. Stop being offended by every fucking letter. This is not gay pride.
How about you honor your word and keep your big nose out of people's way, it's not my fault that you are now a relic. At least other people had the guts to do something even if it was wrong, yea but you had something to do off-chain, what? WTF are you doing here? Honor your word and stop trying to be a smart ass because no one cares. You run like a coward and left people to do the dirty work, then you came sneaking like a rat on the same day of the SF expecting to have the higher ground and clean hands?
A lot of communities but only remembers @cervantes (YEA, because if other communities have created their own witnesses they will for sure enter the top 20, right? We all now why cervantes is/was at the top). If you don't remember anymore maybe you should get to work and support them again ... or this is just one-time ticket to heaven?
Also, If you have some hidden emotions you want to express, go see a shrink. Get your shit together, I have no time to deal with a grown overly emotional man who thinks that emotions are better than facts. Stop rambling around and getting excited over shit. Move on.
Sun moves clearly made more damages than I though on your ego, he outsmarted every retarded here who thought that a cult of 60 people will do the job. The whole community is divided now just because the BS you and your ghetto of retarded friends brought us.
It's too late to play the vigil.
Get em doc.
If there was a message there, I couldn't extract it from the poorly written jumble of words. At least you didn't call me a racist again, and instead implied that I am gay (which, whether or not accurate, I won't take as an insult).
I wonder who the racist is.
Dude GTFO with that racism bullshit, this ain't the Democrat SJW woke party. Blaming events not going your way on racism is the lamest excuse for retards.
No shit fucktard. Trying to be a man?
Look in the mirror, Ned's balls are still marked on your forehead retard. Don't come here playing the hero because no one is going to believe it, well apart from other simps like you. Your problem is that you whine a lot, more like you scream for attention. Always pandering like a pig, seeking the approval of other people. It's disturbing to see that despite kissing asses and having no honor for that long, you were never able to secure your place at the top 20 for long. Have some integrity and self-respect, and do something for the community, something more than playing your sneaky tricks on the witness page of your website retard. Maybe then, people will start seeing you as an honest man. Stop waiting for charity.
Look at your history on the chain retard, it seems to me that you are into the SJW deep. Didn't know that sucking other men balls was a conservative thing to do.
Despite not agreeing with him, it was a pleasure to see Sun destroy your special safe place gender-inclusive turbo rainbow lollipop little hideout. This is turbocapitalism retard, whining like a crazy short-haired feminist is not going to change the facts. Either you accept the idea that someone outsmarted and fucked your little retarded brain and move on, or you keep whining for years.
Go retard it's time to harvest your emotions, then take those bitchy emotions and shave them deep in your ass, then we can talk logically. Build yourself an identity simp, stop from being so artificial.
Now go to your friends on discord to feel great again,
PS: Always funny to see top witnesses defining each other, an old habit of jerking each other I guess.
Ableist too. Too many sins to throw any stones there.
Yes you can and we should ditch them. They are a danger to decentralization and are at this moment hurting the chain greatly by keeping sockpuppet accounts in control of the chain.
They are an accomplice in the hostile takeover.
I cannot agree that they are aiding and abetting Tron's takeover. What they're doing is extortion, and they're using potential treachery to do it, but they've fallen short of actually enabling the takeover.
I don't think that's the right reason to ditch them. I think the extortion by threatening treachery, coupled with the reasons they're bitching about flags (botting mercilessly and getting flagged for it), are the right reasons. The quick powerdown they seek is simply misunderstanding - or they're hackers and want to steal our SP but the long powerdowns keep preventing their getting away with our Steem when they seize our accounts.
Makes no sense to me otherwise.
I think people see our 7-8 witnesses in top 20 and they think that there's a balance. I don't see it like that.
Justin is in control, the chain is centralized, he is the sole BP and the hostile takeover is done.
If you take that approach the Koreans are indeed enabling the takeover by voting for him.
I don't disagree with your view of consensus atm. I do disagree proxy.token voters see it that way. I reckon extortion is enough to discount their concerns though, and I reckon we're on the same side of that coin when all is said and done.
Fantastic write up of the temperature of this situation. You nailed the tone and everything. We need more of this!
Also, don’t forget to fuck Ned! #fuckyouned
Steem DPOS protocol needs to evolve into Steem REDPOS
This is all truth and nothing but the truth.
Sun cannot be trusted, hence his constantly shifting demands/offers that reflect only one consistency, he wants complete freedom and control to rest solely with him. He thinks he owns a company here and does not understand the difference between that and buying a large stake in a decentralized network.
So is there a way forward, @drakos? Or are we just hanging around until we fork off a new chain free of Sun and the ninja stake?
I ask this because I don't see the witnesses making any realistic negotiations. Sun ISN'T going to remove his sockpuppet witnesses while there's a chance his stake could be ring-fenced again. You guys must surely know this. Yet you keep "negotiating" like this is an option.
Instead of repeatedly asking him to remove his sockpuppets without offering anything in exchange for this, why not try and negotiate their removal? I've posted this before, so sorry to anyone who has to keep reading it, but we should try and get Sun to commit a portion (25%?) of the ninja stake for development (via the SPS or some other independent mechanism). In exchange we could offer him 4 week powerdown, as that's something that has received some support prior to all this. He could of course run and dump his remaining 75%, but with 25% locked up he has an incentive to stick around and get that 25% and more back through growing the chain.
As it stands, it looks like he'll eventually force a hardfork on us and then possibly dump 100% of his tokens. If we can give him a reason to stick around (to grow his investment), we can make a statement that no more of his stake will be ring-fenced (other than perhaps removing witness voting rights), and he can then get rid of his sockpuppet witnesses. This should at least be attempted if we want to save this version of the Steem blockchain.
Unless we are all just treading water waiting for a fork off to a new coin/chain...
Pretty much how I see it except I don't agree with this part:
Even if he did that I wouldn't believe it. With the damage he has already done to his credibility, it would take years to believe anything he says (and likewise for Ned). Whatever sort of "concrete action" or "commitments" he might undertake in the short term I would view as being a manipulative trick or convenient-for-Justin position-of-the-day until proven otherwise.
This.
Why would he ever commit to anything? He despises the STEEM community due to the damage we have done (might have) to his relationship with CZ and his reputation in crypto.
Id bet anything that he has developed a strong hatred for STEEM and would crush us if it wouldnt mean him losing money.
He is a despot, simple as that, and having a rowdy bunch of idealists oppose him and win the PR game hurts his ego greatly.
I see no way of witnesses working with him. There will always be this lingering fear that he might try something shady and im sure he will never let us put anything in code that will reduce his power over the chain to prevent that possibility.
See above
I think its fair to say that we shouldn't trust Justin Sun or the developers and the witnesses fighting against Justin Sun. The record has shown that the dev team prioritizes whales over smaller channels so their concerns about protecting steem for steemians is laughable. They're just as much concerned about their own stake and rewards as Justin. This doesn't apply to all whales and witnesses but the assumption to just blindly support whales/witnesses because of this Tron dilemma isn't the way to go either.
Thank you for your clear understanding and unwavering support.
I do not believe the Koreans supporting Justin Sun misunderstand anything. Yes, they haven't been getting their way. Yes they are trying to get their way (nonsurprise Justin suddenly supports random policy), they will bail with Justin Sun. The worst part is they will exploit the reward pool for as long aspossible why we will stick around to provide any value. Also, their long term business plans when that fail are suited fornthe Tron network.
I want them to leave. Its not worth cooperating because the Steem they want isn't Steem. Its their personal money printing factory at our expense.
All of the above.
I think it is time for people to try and understand the Korean Side of the down vote issue. I read the transcript of the discord chat, look at the answers again that were given to and responses about the down vote issue. The down vote system needs to be fixed, it is not a hard fix, when down voting using the steemit front end you get a pop-up that list the reason. The pop-up is there already, add check boxes next to the reason, and code in an auto non-editable comment of choice made. Then the community can decide if the down vote was justified.
As a society we do not require justifications for positive actions under taken by the individual, in fact a lot of people see such justification when given as false and self serving. We as a society do require justifications for negative action taken, justify why you shot that person justify why you beat that person, justify why you robbed that person, justify why you were speeding and endangering the lives of others, we don't just want as a society we demand as a society the justifications for negative actions. Then we as a society decide if the action even though negative was justified. From what I have seen and read from the Korean side of this issue is what they are looking for, not a blank check to scam, plagiarizer or abuse steem, but for a justification for the down votes.
Fix the down vote system, and the Koreans would, I am sure be glad to support the witness side of things.
First, I think their position isn't necessarily just that flags don't come with a comment you can flag back. My understanding is the worst kind of botting, self-voting, and circle jerking was being undertaken and because of the language barrier, had been for a while, until they were served a cease and desist flagging.
Secondly, I think that if you want a drop down for flags, you should want one for upvotes too. I agree flags are broken, but I am not sure a dropdown menu is the right fix. Maybe they should need to come with a comment, but then I'm hoist on my own petard, and upvotes should too.
Frankly, since I oppose automated voting for any reason, I actually could maybe live with that, as long as the comments either way weren't automated, but written by a person.
Lastly, I don't think folks undertake extortion for only stated reasons. I don't think they are simply interested in the specific fixes suggested, but seek more power out of avarice.
It's a political manouver, not just redressing grievances.
I do see it as political maneuvering, I would prefer that people manually vote myself, I do understand why some don't, it is not that easy of a thing to do. I also remember the madhatter days of "I gave you an upvote" comment. Those did not go over very well, it was seen as glad handing and trying to get comment votes back. I see down votes as a negative action, does not matter the reason altruistic or not a down vote is a negative action taken against a post, an account or an individual and have led to blanket automated down votes on some people for everything. People can justify all they want about protecting the reward pool, but it is still a down vote, it is still a negative action, I would prefer the down voter leave the reason, but if an automated response is acceptable to the down voter or they do not feel like elaborating on the why of it, at least the community can see the vote clearly.
Check box for up votes I can live with also, even though I do not like the idea of having to justify positive actions, it hurts a person's karma when they point out their good deeds to people.
Flags are negative inputs on accounts, of that there is no doubt, and folks that dissemble regarding that are disingenuous.
I had hoped to get past check boxes. My views have never fit in one.
Full support, we need to talk to the Korean community though and trying to explain why downvotes and decentralization are so important. Without downvotes there would be no balance in the system to fight misuse, spam, and plagiarism. The ninja-mined Genesis stake of Steemit Inc. is not a normal account and has certain strings attached like being used mainly for the development, infrastructure and marketing of the Steem ecosystem and should stay non-voting / neutral all the time.
What's the problem with having to justify your downvote and for that justification to be public for people to agree with it or not? As I understand that's what the Korean community wants not the abolishment of downvotes all together. It's meant to be proof of brain yet a lot of downvoting is made by bot accounts no history no interactions just downvotes done by cowards hidding behind annonymous accounts I don't think that's healthy for the system
Most bot downvotes have almost no value associated with them, so it does not really matter. Maybe we can think of a system how to fight downvote spam as well.
A hundred worthless bot downvotes add up it's also more about how they are used more not as a way of curating content but as a way of persecuting people who don't agree with whales have different opinions than majority of community etc
In short I think downvotes if smthng should be aimed at what is said I something not at who says it while with downvote bots targeting a user where is the content curation? It's just a way of bullying people of the platform, not really the land of free where there is no tyranny or racism as many claim steem is( personally I think most of those people either have there heads burried deep in sand or never had a thought of there own)
This is known to them I have spoken with. They've been botting hard and the language barrier let them get away with it for a long time - I am told. The language barrier kept me from ascertaining this for myself.
They want to keep printing Steem with bots, and being flagged stopped them.
I'll keep red pill, thank you very much, Mr Sun.
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Tbh this shit getting tense each day and there seems to be no win win situation. How are we going forward? that's something I would like to know since this deal turns sour.
"Why not, some said: "let him dump, we could buy cheap STEEM". Oh yeh? If that happens, price gets trashed, expect more whales (bad or otherwise) to gain more power."
So him having the stake is bad, but him dumping and allowing the community to buy it, cheap, is also bad. If he dumps on exchanges everyone has the same chance to buy it, whale or minnow. That seems like a strange justification for opposing a dump. I think the best thing that could happen for decentralization is a bunch of steem gets sold for dirt cheap. But that is just me.
Considering the global markets are all down, stocks, precious metals and cryptos, I think it's the worst timing for anyone to dump anything.
I don't disagree with you, but I am glad you do not control my investment decisions just the same. Also, per your analysis, this is a great time to be buying Steem.
If only there were masses of it for sale cheap...
!giphy so dangerous
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giphy is supported by witness untersatz!
Congratulations @drakos!
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Justin Sun is a a smart guy? Says Who??? Justin is so ignorant about how this blockchain actually works he makes himself look stupid. Justin has disgraced himself and can never recover from this unless he changes his though process.
Who said he was smart lol. Indeed he's totally ignorant of what he bought.
Well I mean he did graduate from the Jack Ma School of Blah Blah Blah! He’s supposed to be smart but he proves with every meeting he is not a smart man. His ego is too big for success.
It is indeed sad and unfortunate, Justin could have had his cake and eat it too if he was just upfront and honest with us
Honestly, with what happened to the governance due to exchanges voting with traders' tokens, I say we increase the power down length and not decrease it.
It seems to me the best defense against exchanges is a long stake duration.