Hive Middle Class Developing
It is easy to focus upon the whales while ignoring the power that is present in one's hands.
This appears to be a human tendency that extends past Hive. However, for years, many maintained that, due to the design of Hive, a powerful middle class could form.
Most blockchains offer a couple ways of earning the coin. This comes from providing infrastructure in the form of a block validator or through purchase. For much of the world, neither of these is very feasible.
What about Hive?
There are a couple additional options that separate it from most. The first is through author rewards. New HIVE is distributed to users based upon the votes they receive. Here is where people without resources can accumulate some of the base layer coin.
At the same time, as that is staked, the potential for curation rewards enters. Here is where one can compound the holdings, simply through daily activity.
Hive Middle Class
When it comes to category distinction, we can consider the middle class to be Orcas and Dolphins. These achieved at roughly the 5,750 and 57,500 HP levels.
Here is where the goal is to have widespread distribution. As more people enter these realms, and more HP is held in those wallet, system resiliency increases.
Naturally, this is not a process that happens over night but thousands of active people has an impact over time.
Here is a thread that was posted yesterday.
https://inleo.io/threads/view/nonameslefttouse/re-leothreads-2ja2szhqx
The total Hive Power of these accounts is 64 million. That is a healthy amount and, as shown enough to get things done.
Mentioning the proposal is valid. The return proposal level, at this moment, is 27 million. The means Orcas and Dolphins could pass whatever they wanted.
Another way of looking at it is the middle class could, collectively, put the return proposal at a level where nothing gets funded (at the present voting).
Thus, it is a mistake to think there is no power there.
Witnesses
Most are aware of the role witnesses play. Here is where the assertion of "whale control" enters. Certainly, having whale votes does help.
However, once again, it is not as cut and dry as one thinks.
According to Peakd, the #20 witness, the last in consensus, has 66 million votes. This means the "middle class" could vote a witness to the #21 or #22 spot on their own.
What is very interesting is the top witness has 83 million in votes.
At this point, the middle class is on the outside looking in. Of course, in the real world, no witness is not going to get at least a few whale votes if it is nearing consensus. We also have to account for those below 5K HP. Their votes add up also.
The flip side to this is the middle class is not that far away from really being able to, collectively, control things.
While another 22 million sounds like a lot, there is a pathway if focused.
Percentage Gain
Another thing I wrote about over the years is the ability for smaller accounts to massive increase their influence.
The tendency is to look at the raw numbers. Instead, a better approach is to look at percentages.
If an account has 10K HP, adding 2K, or less than 6 HP per day, is a 20% gain in a year. Here is where the middle class can expand its influence.
Considering that curation and inflation adjustment come in near 11%, this means the only needs around 900 HP, or less than 3 per day, from online activity (posting and commenting).
To contrast, Blocktrades, with roughly 12 million HP, needs to generate over 1 million from the same activity. It isn't going to happen.
The situation gets even crazier when we talk about the Minnows but, for now, we are focusing upon the middle class.
Another piece of the puzzle is to get more people entering the middle class as opposed to leaving it. If there are more accounts, the numbers only go higher.
For this reason, those with 400 HP should look to get to 1K; those with 2,500 to move to 5,500.
As more people are working up the scale, the total impact, over time, shifts.
Long-Term Focus
Here is a chart that is a bit dated but it shows the breakdown into each category.
There are roughly 2,000 accounts in the middle class.
Looking at the chart, which goes back to Feb 1st, from a MVest perspective, we can see the middle class plus the Minnows have almost as much HP as the whales.
Again, going back to the ability to gain influence, the smaller accounts can increase their position to a larger degree.
The key is to have a long-term focus with one's account.
If you are a smaller account, say 1K HP, what are you going to do to triple your account and get to 3K HP this year? How would you like to start Next year with 3K, then build from there?
That is the ownership mindset. Treat your account like a business. If we view each coin as digital real estate, are you expanding your empire by amassing more.
The potential impact on one's wealth is obvious. What also should be clear is the effect on the ecosystem. Each time a smaller account increases its influence by an outsized percentage, i.e. g reater than what the larger accounts can do, it adds more resiliency to the ecosystem.
Here is where we see Hive's middle class developing.
Posted Using InLeo Alpha
I was dolphin heading to orca at one point in time, then well, life happens and you have to be grateful for what you have and use it. And after last cycle and getting burned on having so much value staked up, I am doing things a bit differently this go around. Lessons learned. Maybe one day I’ll build it back up when I can get one of these other things to pop off a bit more so I don’t have to keep powering down.
That makes a lot of sense. We have an obligation to sell the highs and buy the lows to stabilize the Coin Price as @edicted would put it.
I would just say, GREED IS GOOD.
I mean we are not obligated, but… I do like taking profits, 😂
Good :)
Idk if it’s still available but they used to have a Liquid Hive Power token (LHP) on Hive Engage.
They would delegate HP to you for every 1 LHP you held on Hive Engine without having to power up. Hopefully they still have that going as an option
Never heard of it. But that also defeats the purpose of being able to trade it. They would be taking delegation from me all the time. I’ll just keep with what I am doing.
No familiar with that one.
That is true. Sometimes life happens in a hard way.
Ah man, in so many hard ways, all at once, lol. 22-23 were rough. But I have rebuilt from zero before, I can do it again.
Yeah. Life as a dude.
It is not an easy path but you do what is in front of you. That is what we do. Have no other choice.
Yep, survive or die… And I ain’t dead yet, so that leaves one choice…
Well three choices:
My fat ass don’t need the second 2, lol, so I’ll take crypto…
Actually fat boy really wants some KK right now, 😂 But I will settle for an apple and a boiled egg from my hens.
LOL Well sometimes you have to live dangerously.
Spoil yourself sometimes although who can afford KK. Not a cheap donut.
Yeah they are pricey for sure. I treat myself at times, just in a different way that the after effects are you REALLY want KK to soothe the munchies, 😂
When Doritos dont work?
Depends on the sweet vs savory munchies, sometimes it’s both… At the same time, lol. But I have to be super stoned for something like that, 😂
Doritos sales jumped as pot sales grow.
Oh I am sure. But the older I get, the less I can eat, 😂
Aging sucks, 😂
This is something super important to be noticed. More power, to more people.
Im delegating most of my power but wanna reach dolphin status and then start something like a comunity or become a curator.
Now my vote isn't much, so my plan is keep increasing Power. A strategy to reach that is sell high, buy low and power up more
I am doing the same, buying at low, selling at high, and powering my HP up. Great way to get grow 😀
Just keep building. Consistent activity is a huge help.
Need consistency. For me it's hard the writing part. 😂
I am going to be a Dolphin :)
I doubt those numbers are meaningful in any way. How much of that middle class are active beyond auto voting? Answer- much less than the total.
Also, as long as the Whales use 100% of their voting power daily their accounts will continue to grow faster than the average 20 accounts in the middle class consistently. (This is an educated assumption, not actual. It could be higher or lower)
If Hive doesn't bring in more active users and retain its current users< which it's not, then all this is just smoke and mirrors and doesn't represent what's actually going on. The economics is flawed and is the reason Hive has long stagnated with no end in sight.
Years of hopium has blinded the builders and they are not making the changes that Web2 users need to see. Also, the average user will never band together long enough to make a real difference. It takes Justin Sun level events for that to happen and is never sustained.
You @taskmaster4450 have made your place here selling hopium, but little of it has actually materialized. So, hopium only sells to those already here and active, but not to prospective users outside of the platform, unfortunately.
It must be nice earning a nice selling hot air. You would be a leader if you concentrated on making what Hive needs happen, rather just trying to rally the troops to do their part. They won't unless they have an example to follow and words aren't actions.
I disagree with this view point. I grew from 0 over a 6 year period and have over 114K HP and believe I can get to whale status within the next 6 years possibly. If you are active and consistent this is up to you. No one said this was easy and even more reason to work even harder because anyone wanting to achieve anything in life has to put the time in to reap any rewards.
And you are representative of the average potential user? Not likely, you need to look way outside of yourself for this one...
Yeah I get that too, but reality is this is available to everyone who puts effort in for a long period of time.
Just curious, how many hours a week do you average on Hive and how many hours for the week you've earned the most? I'm not looking for exact numbers, just the best guess.
Never really checked but would guess 50 hours per week and somewhere around 600 hive being the best week. I used to spend more time, but have cut back. I believe you need time being active to get established.
Right, so more hours than an average full time job for about the earnings of a poor person for just one year, but it took you six. Most won't find Hive worth the effort and is why it has stagnated.
Yes that is one way of looking at it. The other way is you have grown a base that you can then put less time in and it will generate far more in the future. Time is needed in the beginning.
This view always bothered me and is the most common reason people don't stay. The write a blog and even if it gets $40, they go 'that's not even equal to 1-hour salary at work! and it took 2 hours to write, fuck this'.
Nobody understands how value here works. Like I've just watched my account casually go from $9,000 to $12,000 as the markets creep up in value. It's hardly impossible that goes to $25-$30,000.
At the end of the day, it's simply because people don't enjoy blogging, inherently. It's just not fun or interesting. I happen to like it though, so I stick around, and now people are jealous that I have $25,000+ in various places of crypto I earned 100% by writing words on a computer once in a while.
I might have instead watched a TV show every time, or gone fishing, and earned $0 in the same period. If you enjoy it, doesn't matter.
Ah, but people obviously do like sharing on social media or the big web2 apps wouldn't be so popular. So the problem is the framework and unspoken rules here that holds it back. That only happens because of the weird economics that increases ones power exponentially as they stake more an more. The longer a few grow so large that they cannot be touched before the masses come to even it out, the less likely the masses will come. A cycle that kills growth.
On top of that, crypto is just seen as a grocery store rewards point kills its appeal. After jumping through all the hoops and paying all the fees to withdraw you no longer have $25k and then there are taxes. So, even putting in 50 hrs a week that doesn't take you beyond poverty level earns even less. So, the shown value is just an illusion.
Look at InLeo Evergreen rewards. It's touted as a way to earn forever, but if you power down you can't earn them. So, ever benefit Hive touts are all negated in some way in the name of fighting abuse. Because of this Hive's big day will never come.
My original comment was to bring forth the fact that over 50% of that middle class HP is left by those who have left Hive, because they don't care about the worthless credit earned that's only worth the cost of earning if you live in a poverty stricken 3rd world country. So, guess what the platform's becoming? A 3rd world platform, further taking away it's appeal.
The governance is part of what keeps us from growth and drives people away, because it isn't revolutionary. It's just a worst version of the failed representative real world governments that more and more are coming to hate. Hive is essentially a failed experiment. Either it changes or someone else will build a fixed version and will become dust.
I mean I agree with several points, but 'Either it changes' ultimatum is a bit dramatic. As far as I can see, it's already in a position where people can utilize the platform to create great things. There's just nobody doing it, and I don't know how one would make that change when there's no CEO or any real risk.
Nobody is incentivised to hire a full time staff to expand, nor get any outside investors involved - there's nothing to invest in.
But yeah you can't really blame the back-end that is Hive, so much as the very concept itself: Crypto, Tokens, Blockchain...
So you either accept its just something most people aren't going to be interested in the second they hear any of those red flag keywords (blockchain etc) and make with it what you will... or, you move to the standard web2 and start a fight about abortion on X until you become viral enough to start peddling a book about becoming a millionaire overnight in 8 easy steps.
Or I suppose third option is you create a Hive-backed platform where Hive itself is so well-hidden that the red flags all get concealed and the tokens get auto-exchanged into USD or something.
existing on a blockchain is like living in a neighbourhood with a registered sex offender. They could be absolutely, 100%, honest to the highest powers reformed, Godly and castrated. Maybe even completley innocent to begin with.
The value of housing is still gonna plummet lol. There's just no easy way around that fact.
Well, the real question is why hasn't Hive the tech already caught the attention of teams of devs? Plenty have seen it, but it's obviously missing something because they strolled right on by. I'll be dramatic once again; if it doesn't find the missing pieces then Hive will only be a potential never realized. I believe that to already be the case. Instead, a new idea will blast by leaving Hive in the rear mirror still trying to realize that potential. Hence why I'm not investing in it... I'll go out on a limb say that the governance structure is a huge hindrance. The worst version of a democracy ever instituted.
Over the years, I've seen a LOT of glistening, shiny replicas of Hive come and go. They had a lot more financial support and backing, a more centralised leadership and more ambitious teams.
And yet, they no longer exist. In the real world, the vast majority of business ventures fail, the majority of those failing in 5 years or less. It's a survivorship bias to simply say, buck your ideas up and you'll succeed. That just isn't true.
Again, Hive isn't meant to be some business venture where investors come and expect a product they can peddle. It's meant to be a background function that people use. The one thing that Hive as a society has failed to do, is find the right people to do that.
The goal, I believe, is not to suddenly boom into existence, hit headlines, and have a bunch of silicon valley entrepreneurs pour billions into it. That's a whole other world. The goal here is to create a powerful, functional tool. It just happens to work as a blog cuz thats how it started out.
The more people who make games like Holozing and Splinterlands, website builders, or news platforms, or payment tools, or educational tools, etc, the more accessible and successful the hive back end will become. But even then, Hive should be at most a vague shadow beaneath those projects, like a programming language or something.
It's very possible it will never happen, as you suspect, but I'd rather stick around and find out, while in the meantime benefitting from a quaint little community which has allowed me to take a year off work with my earnings and buy a nice expensive laptop ^__^
Fair enough
As an aside, you've been whining on this platform for literally months... why are you even here lol, come on. Just go back to X or whatever and have a good time re-tweeting memes
I have my reasons and that's allw hich matters. It's been much longer than months
You're doing it wrong.
https://www.leofinance.io/threads/view/nonameslefttouse/re-leothreads-u8daesv8
That link leads to a multi-billion dollar industry described in two short comments. That's what we're all sitting on.
Sure but I was talking in a traditional sense. your comments are hypotheticals. Hypothetically, this place could be huge and dominate the new world, but it doesn't, and won't. Which isn't even a bad thing imo.
It just doesn't work in the way normy people understand the economic way of the world, and perhaps I'm naive but history shows that just generating endless content isn't some foolproof path to success. Quite the contrary, the more hours put into it, the less per-hour income shared out decreases on average, since the averate content creator here earns about 0.3 cents per post
Something does need to happen far beyond what's currently being done to trigger any significant growth (if that's even desirable - not for me)
Would be difficult to take the traditional approach while blazing new trails. And of course generating an endless pile of content leads nowhere. And yes the content creators don't earn much. Like I said. Doing it wrong.
Yes, a normal person wouldn't understand how they're able to support their interests at no cost rather than throwing their money away, all while watching their support level grow over time. Consumers aren't accustomed to getting an actual deal.
They can learn.
Content creators here don't even realize the world and money outside exists. That's why they earn so little and then think the platform is broken, but they could learn, too.
Will anyone learn? I doubt it.
Here's what everyone's missing, and I'll use streamers as an example.
If a streamer doesn't receive any form of tip throughout their stream, they wouldn't conclude the platform is broken, and they wouldn't stop creating content. They would continue, streaming daily.
Eventually those tips start pouring in. Now they have a supportive following/return customers. All that work with low pay was worth it.
Now, if you add in our model here. Staking tokens and voting is the same as the tips they've grown accustomed to earning. However, those tips are sporadic and the revenue stream is all over the place. Up and down.
That consumer can stake tokens and vote. Now the streamers support is spread out and consistent, daily. Plus that consumer isn't actually spending money. All they've done is shifted money over from their bank account to their Hive wallet. They're no longer spending money to support a content creator but instead earning money to support a content creator.
Due to the fact this is a phenomenal deal, more people are encouraged to provide support naturally. Now the streamer has a following consisting of far more regular paying supporters. And if one decides they've had enough, they can leave, have their money back or go support someone else; streamer continues and hardly notices they're gone because five more showed up.
Traditionally, nobody can afford to support a content creator with cash tips, daily. Since content creators work daily, this method is far more future friendly.
Now, when you have thousands of creators attracting millions of supporters, you're going to have a really hard time keeping that token value at 40 cents. Demand causes consistent rise in value because all consumer money is locked into this ecosystem rather than coming in as cash tips then leaving as cash tips. Now the streamer is making even more money and they can actually cash out instead of being told to go around and leave comments under posts and engage with others to gain support, only to be viewed as a traitor if they actually cash out and pay themselves.
That's what everyone is missing out on by sticking to the way things are. And you don't need a boss to get that ball rolling. Just need a few people to be able to understand what I'm saying and doing it for themselves.
Consumers double as investors while actual investors see a business model worth investing in. All this is just sitting on the table and could start happening today if people wanted.
By keeping things the way they are and have been for a number of years, yeah, you're right, there's nothing to invest in. And oddly enough, everything I just brought up is only one small part of what Hive actually is. Get those consumers here and even those games see a boom. Interest spills over onto everything else. All this place needs to do is open the blinds and look outside.
Survivorship bias - There are people with youtube channels of exceptionally composed and produced content, animated, scripted, algorithmically catered to perfection, and they get 300 views tops, half of them probably themselves checking why no views.
We never hear about the failures, only the successes.
You can't guarantee to people to just keep chugging along. Something has to change and adapt to the environment - they have to do something else with substantial business acumen to get it off the ground, rather than just hope for enough luck to go viral.
Even if Hive did go viral somehow and get a sudden influx of a million users, they'd ride the market wave and dump asap, with a user retention rate here of about 1%, I don't see why it would change just cuz more people join. They'll be gone inside of a week with a nice chunk of change for some AI generated contenet that took 30 seconds.
This is a leap of faith based on long term gains 99.9999% + of people will never do, unfortunately.
The opposite is true, people are encouraged to provide support artificially, which is how you get all this culture of circle jerking, auto-voting and other forms of abuse. This isn't unique to here, by any means.
On the contrary, it's natural support when people actively spend their money to support the content they like, such as via patreon or allowing ads.
But more to the point, you've made some leaps back into a totally hypothetical situation with no real practical path to get to that result, short of simply 'Just need a few people to be able to understand what I'm saying and doing it for themselves.' - well, what people? How? Who is going to tell them? How do we know they will stay, or invest? How can we make them? What is so appealing about an insignificant front end that doesn't even make it in the top 50,000 websites in terms of traffic, and is less valuable and popular than the majority of scammy shitcoins?
None of what you've said has happened yet, and there's no reason to think it will.
The missing piece here is the initial investor, the big, wealthy stakeholders that invest specifically so they can have a stake in how things succeed, with the specific goal of growing their own passive wealth. It's this that drives most companies to greater heights in the real world. Your idea might be future friendly, but we're in the present, and future friendly isn't interesting to people living in the present.
There is a barrier, a Great Filter, preventing your ambitious views from happening that you haven't managed to address (and neither has anyone so far in the last 8+ years).
I don't wanna be too doomy. I am still here and I still have faith in this project, and I want to figure a way to make my totally awesome concept come to life here. I just think it's a much steeper uphill battle than you suggest, and I don't think anyone should expect a sudden boom of recognition after a hardfork or something. It's gonna crawl at a linear rate for a long, long time, if not forever - and if there is a way out of that, I haven't seen it - yet!
I didn't say everyone earns. I didn't say everyone succeeds. That was left out because it's commonsense. The eventual tips pouring in can be observed on other platforms. It happens, often. Streamer example, it's hard to find one where someone isn't being thanked for the tip.
What I'm attempting to point out and often fail is how the support system is the only thing that makes this platform different. It's not used effectively though or even marketed.
Pointing out how it can be used to gather authentic organic support. You're seeing how it's being used now to recycle existing money and the rest of this disaster.
A content creator here could easily use patreon. The supporters then lose out on the benefits of staking and voting. That's the difference. Same action. Better deal for the consumer. And in eight years nobody has tried to get outside support by offering those perks. I'm talking about "natural support" as you put it. And there are plenty of studies pointing to the fact consumers spend more when perks are involved, but that's not the point.
When I explain it, most can't see how consumers/supporters and investors have different mindsets. It often turns into this whole story about how they'd dump for profit. Their goal is to support content, much like they would using patreon or tipping a streamer or youtuber or anything. They're coming for content, not crypto.
This model that already exists without changing anything here can compete with patreon, and win.
I said I just need a few people to understand what I'm talking about. You're not one and explaining this any other way still won't make sense to you. That won't stop me from continuing on trying to find those people that get it. Some do. Most don't. Most are stuck in their comfort zones here or convinced everything is broken and it's a lost cause.
Without outside money coming in to make up for the cost of the content here, all this content amounts to a net loss. That's not attractive to any big miracle investor, unless they came along to build something combined with the same plans I'm trying to highlight here. They'd want to make money.
Our Hive Engine tokenized communities with several contributors and a weekly payout is akin to a weekly issued magazine. In order for someone to purchase that magazine, they stake tokens and vote for articles. The reason all those tokens struggle is because they didn't sell their "magazine" to readers.
Creating a product for consumers, ignoring consumers, and hoping for a big investor to show up is ridiculous. There's a scaled down example of how seeking outside money, embracing supporters and offering those perks that come standard would rejuvenate the entire project. It's very basic business principles I'm pointing out here. Nothing more.
(sorry for late reply - time zones)
Agree! I think this highlights that we're actually both in agreement. I even said in my original response this very statement. Hive itself is ready to go, the issue is not its function, but its appeal (none).
It's not that I, or others are too low IQ to understand these basic principles of how things should, could and would work. It's just demonstrably, they aren't, don't, and won't.
I've literally been here for as long as you, pretty consistently the entire time, I've been involved in projects for years and I have plans for a new one. So I personally believe in the system and obviously see its potential and the various ways it can be utilized effectively. If not, I would have quit long ago.
However, it's just not an ecosystem conducive to 99.99999%+ of people as consumers/supporters, let alone a hawkish investment-minded elite who could get the place kickstarted. I get that there's an entirely new way of thinking about things regarding stakes and encouraging engagement for rewards. But that clearly, demonstrably isn't nearly enough.
Hell, this place could have the greatest possible online ecosystem ever to be constructed that could single-handedly transform the planet into a utopia. It still won't get off the ground on merit alone.
Generally, it's the support a project gets from big investors that gives users the confidence of legitimacy and up-and-coming vibes. Even that doesn't guarantee things - just look at all the failed Google projects out there with all the financial backing in the world - but it absolutely raises the chances far more than simply depending on users being slowly drawn in like a donkey drawn to a carrot on a stick.
Most people from outside coming in think about it as such: A dodgy place where you turn money into fake money in order to generate more fake money which you can't actually do anything with, and you have to suffer through reading boring content and writing even more boring content in order to acquire said fake money.
That ball and chain has never been able to be shaken off. Marketing to consumers alone isn't gonna be enough. If Bill Gates came along and studied it and poured a ton of his money into it, then everyone will be like 'well hang on a minute, legit, uncensored blockchain social media? I'm in!'
Alternatively, front ends are perhaps wiser to conceal or minimize the very fact that blockchain and hive is even involved in whatever project they create, and make those independent projects successful in and of themselves in the traditional sense of start-ups
I wasn't suggesting people aren't smart enough to see the difference. It's just years of programming and always doing things the same way. Crypto is synonymous with investors. Consumers in crypto hardly exists; rare and does not compute. Once those elements become more part of the background, crypto is just money.
I know crypto has a bad name. General public thinks it's trash or thinks they'll be ripped off. Demonstrating how this platform has a solid foundation with evidence won't help either because they won't understand the demonstration.
People do understand "see video, like video, comment."
Also, and I'm not trying to be confrontational and offering counter points just for the sake of argument.
There are big investors here.
You're looking at the current form of the content, thinking people wouldn't be interested. And I can agree, a lot of it's boring and wouldn't attract outside support. When I'm talking about this, I'm not trying to sell this content.
So what's more likely to bring more people? And influencer smiles and says Hive. Or a content creator with their own community offering this support system to their followers.
First one has happened several times and doesn't amount to a damn thing. Second one hasn't happened yet is far more appealing since the only way to move that crowd would be to offer them a better deal. Now you're "marketing" to both content creators and consumers. The people who have large followings on the outside never once brought paying supporters with them. It has always been a missed opportunity. Those supporters trust the personalities they follow. Unfortunately that has led to ripoffs as well. Crypto Zoo for example.
Luckily this platform is decentralized and this approach couldn't turn into a rip off like that. Still, again, those people on the outside wouldn't understand that. I get all this.
Eight years though. No progress in that department. Always the same excuses. Gets old.
People are free to continue creating products for consumers and ignoring the consumers. Can go on for another eight years. Perhaps by then they'll catch on. Magically.
Maybe it's worth mentioning a current case study. Vibes. Look how fast it's growing. The existing support must be shared with each new content creator showing up. Without any added support, the more popular it becomes, the faster it stagnates. The solution is to bring in outside support. People spend billions on music each year. That's a decent pile of money to tap into and this is the first time people that enjoy music can earn to support it rather than throwing those billions away. So there's two choices. Ignore the consumers and allow it to stagnate. Or attract the consumers and allow it to prosper. Boils down to a simple choice.
Watch.
Yep, agree here too.
My idea to get around this blockage is, in my humble opinion, genius on many levels but A) I'm too worried about sharing it and the idea getting stolen B) I don't have the business savvy to get it started C) I don't wanna spend my money knowing the low, low success rate of otherwise great projects here in the past.
Basically a lack of confidence from me - I'd trust you enough if you're mildly curious to hear about it in DMs or something - but point being, that's someone of 7 or 8 years on here lacking confidence that it'll work out. It's much harder to imagine people from a totally outside world coming in with this entirely different and complicated ecosystem, even if you have a large community of loyal followers. I think there's a line in the sand some people just won't cross.
Shifting that line in the sand in our favour is, apparently, extraordinarily difficult to do, but we certainly agree it's not impossible. Just missed opportunity after missed opportunity - including, guilty as charged, my own.
I added another thought to the end of that comment. Just something to watch in real time. It could potentially be the first community to get this ball rolling and they're doing a lot of the right things so far. Vibes is doing an incredible job of tapping into the outside world.
I've been going on about this for years and know what to look for. I understand the lack of confidence and I see that being a common trait here. I'm stubborn though and when I set my eyes on something I don't stop looking at it. It's been frustrating for me though, and people know that. Doing my best to not become bitter and resentful.
I also don't expect anyone to change. So when I see a new community and new people ready to go and make something of this opportunity, I get excited. And it isn't that hopium shit critics with no real plan like to throw around when they don't understand, disagree with something, or just feel like mocking others.
Everyone knows it's uncool to care.
I spent awhile demonstrating what can be accomplished here but where I failed was not having the outside market to tap into so I could simply show people rather than talking about it. Never saw it as being complicated. Could have done so much more. To make up for that, I try to make people see what I saw.
Not impossible. And right now the last thing I want to do is overwhelm that new crowd and community by stepping up and trying to explain. Too much, too soon. Not my project either so don't want to interfere.
And that low success rate you speak of boils down to building and depending on only the existing consumer base. The problem snowballed into this lack of confidence, naturally. Saw it coming years ago but couldn't do much other than point it out. Of course nobody wants to hear they're setting themselves up to struggle. Build it and they will come only happens in the movies.
The average user is lazy, a complainer, and simply says give me votes.
And there it is...user.
Are those with stake users? They seem to want prices to go up so their wallet is worth more.
You say I just try to rally the troops? Have many times have I written/spoken about the ownership mindset? That isnt rallying the troops as much as assigning responsibility, something people abhor.
The reality is the same marxist stuff: attack the successful while pointing out what is wrong and the masses are overlooked.
It is a permissionless system. Anyone can post at anytime. They can focus upon layer 1 coins and layer 2 tokens.
Not sure any of that is relevant. How much stake is just sitting here in limbo, because people don't like how the power is distributed here? If you want web2 users then you want people that just want an audience and to earn fairly for their work. Add the politics and you burst the bubble of interest, which is exactly what has happened. Most don't care, won't care and the "revolutionary" tech here doesn't matter nor won't. Hive has set itself up to fail from the beginning and only the few holding onto hopium, but only see through a tunnel stay.
Here's my reply to @mobbs, which is partly relevant here, at least in part,
How is power distributed? It is based upon stake. So what is the issue? The fact that everyone doesnt have the same power?
This is true, or at least for a while. Most didnt care about video conferencing until COVID even though the technology was around for a decade. This is the history of technology. It is always the early adopters who are first.
Yet, if they are here, what are they here for? Is it the rewards or is it a chance to build a brand? Or is it just social media interaction?
In either case, the distribution is not relevant in any of those cases. Oh wait, only in the rewards because people want handouts.
What does this even mean? What is fairly?
Not sure what you mean, but stake weighted power will only be popular with those who have the highest stakes. It's a failed mechanism, other than for allowing an internal economy to survive with just a few people buying and selling.
With tech sure, but not so much with governance. People don't care about the internals of Facebook as long as they can function as they need. If you think the masses will come and the majority will care about anything but earning and audience, then you'll be disappointed. They don't want to be loyal to a product. They just want it to work towards their benefit.
Handouts? So, the Journalist who spends months on a piece is asking for a handout when they expect that piece earns revenue and do it beyond 7 days? I can use this example for many fields, making your statement ridiculous. That's why we don't have professionals using the platform. Hmmm, I wonder why Influencers don't come or when they do, don't stay?
Stake weighted governance is an awful idea and user numbers show that. Also, stake weighted voting is why professionals won't make the earnings they believe are deseved without putting TOO Much effort into it. When the time frame of success here is realized, they leave.
As usual, you HOPIUM sellers only look at the issues with a very narrow perspective, which is why Hive is stagnate...
Really? So you dont think that people should have a say based upon their stake? Instead, just show up and you are counted the same as those who are involved, doing the work, and have an idea of what is going on.
We see this mindset all over the place and it is an awful ideology.
Yeah. Those without resources always want to have say over those that do have them. Sorry but I cant agree with this ideology or the support of it. This is nothing more than the proverbial class warfare. But now I see what you are saying about "earning fairly".
At the very least, not for governance.
You can't fix a problem if you don't understand what it is or refuse to see them as a problem...
Nothing more than excuses. Very typical when handed an opportunity.
Is Hive perfect? No. There are a lot of flaws and things missing. However, like most opportunities, it is missed.
Nonsense. My success is due to taking advantage of the opportunity by actually being active. You want success, post more content. It is that simple. Few write more post, do more videos, leave more comments/threads than I. It is really that simple.
There are a lot more network effects other than users. This is only scratching the surface.
A lack of understanding of network effects and ownership. The troops are the ones who own this place. There are also other layers where an increase in activity have impact.
Lol, your posts posts mostly create a potential vision, but that vision falls short of what Hive needs to succeed... Read my other reply to you. It should be its own blog post, but I'm not interested in the near valueless grocery store rewards points distributed here. Understand that and understand why the masses brush Hive aside when it's presented to them.
good
While interesting, it's difficult to know exactly where the middle class is on Hive, especially since these numbers are outdated. My guess is that the middle class is just as stagnant as the platform itself. As @findingfreedom says, the whale accounts will grow faster than the orca and dolphin accounts, but how many of those middle class accounts are actually active? That's an excellent question.
The evidence would suggest otherwise although stagnant is a relative term.
Fair enough.
I just did an updated article about it.
The data is available and I did a comparison over a two year period. The direction is clear. We can debate the pace but we know where things are going.
Cool. I don't have time right now. Provide a link here under this comment and I'll check it out when I can. Probably tomorrow morning.
https://inleo.io/@taskmaster4450/hives-middle-class-gets-stronger-and-people-drop-an-opportunity
The chart you show looks very interesting and I know exactly where I am right now
I've followed most of the largest curators and they are mostly voting dumpers.
IF you know someone that isn't voting stake to people that drop it like it's hot, please let me know, I'd like to follow them.
As for the folks dumping what 'we' give them, they don't know what they are giving away for pennies.
It's up to us to not cut our own throats by voting stake to them.
Hindsight is always 20/20/
I think we can pretty accurately predict the outcome of voting stake to dumpers.
Imagine how much faster control would shift from the ninjaminers to the community if the (mostly) ninjaminers weren't taking 50% of the pool day after day and voting it to people that sell it back to them for pennies just as quick as they get it.
IF 'the whales' were interested in transferring control from their few hands to the hands of the many, they would observe a 1000mv vote cap on the pool.
Doing so lowers the height of the hurdle for new investors from having to buy millions of hive, just to gain parity, to 580,000.
A much lower entrance fee.
A much lower dilution rate by the ninjamine.
But, even were 'they' to do that, there is another hill to climb on the horizon and that is the ~30% of hive on the exchanges, not hard to figure out who is holding that.
Certainly not the people dumping hive as fast as it gets voted to them.
Were a large fraction of that hive be powered up, we would be back to where we are now.
No telling how many years it will take to overcome that obstacle to 'community' control.
We could still be at 8usd if folks stopped selling for less.
But, 'It's my money and I need it now! '
Smdh.
Adding 5 HP is a far cry when the ecosystem doesn’t support those who have been continuously trying to build their account and helping to keep pace with a community.
I have been speaking about to enrich other community rather than Leofinance, but it seems to be less than normal rewarding pool to have that is happening. Whales are busy to vote for a few, and even in Hive - there are massive practices of downvoting and sometimes auto-downvoting without any reason to do so.
Blockchain still has its flows nonetheless, but still hope is there and wait for long time to grow,yet the race is a long time to be achieved.
But don't forget those whales continue to stack like crazy. The curation rewards and general APR at those levels of hive will take a lot of those middle class people to set it off. However we are seeing more people involved and some more generation of wealth spreading out which is always a good thing.
Yeah although when one whale dumps a million HP on the market, that is a huge shift, depending upon who purchases it.
You hit the nail on the head. People need to be involved.
Very interesting post, "According to Peakd, the #20 witness, the last in consensus, has 66 million votes. This means the "middle class" could vote a witness to the #21 or #22 spot on their own." this part is not true. The Discord Group of the top witnesses just decided to trimm fat on the voting side, they can up their game really fast.
Upwards and Forward, let's keep going Task. The mining process of the Hive Blockchain is one of the best ever thought of and maybe the best implemented so far.
Actually sometimes I always admire the structure that hive plays and it has a way of playing out things as expected and this is great to see as expected because not all projects have witnesses that hive has that helped to run things out
Average Joe for Dictator!!!
I've been keeping an eye on the rankings and we are up to 180 accounts with over 100k with more likely to get there soon. This 'middle class' will gain more influence. This is why I try to help more people get to at least minnow. They will feel their stake matters more as it grows.
An interesting way to analyze things. It does show how, over time, things shift.
A very important step. It is the proverbial funnel, need more minnows to get more dolphins, which then lead to orcas.
A wider spread of HP is good for Hive in general. We don't want all the power wielded by a few accounts, but the whales still dominate for now.
Wow I did not knew that the middle class on hive.blog had so much Hive power.
It isnt discussed much. People simply believe they are helpless.
Interesting data and analysis about distribution of Hive Power!
In five years on Hive I have worked hard to increase my Hive Power and in 2-3 months I should finally increase the number of orcas :) but I will not stop even if becoming a whale will take years ;)
!discovery 20
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This is one of those excellent thought-provoking posts that I like 😀
A couple of observations;
First, that the Hive "Middle Class" is a diverse group, so it's unlikely you'll ever see any kind of block vote. Personally, I regard that as a good thing, because although it's less dramatic, it reflects the healthily diverse spread of Hivers.
Second, is that I believe we really, really need to focus earnings away from whales and onto the middle and lower class of Hivers. Right now, curation and author rewards are pleasant but not earth-shaking. The real earnings are going to the top 20 witnesses and developers scooping up DHF funding (often the same people). I'd love to see witness rewards taper down more slowly, so there's less of a sharp cut-off between #20 and #21. I also firmly believe DHF proposals should be scrutinised more carefully, with business cases that identify what the funds are spent on in detail, what success looks like, and how (in layman's terms) the proposal benefits Hive.
I recognise the great work that witnesses and developers do, but there needs to be closer scrutiny and accountability to ensure good cost control. Funds saved that way could then help the middle class grow, which in turn would hopefully help attract new users.
People need to take accountability for what goes on. There are ways to increase one's influence on Hive.
Everyone check Your Hive-Engine Balance for VKBT
https://hive-engine.com/trade/VKBT
In real life, there is no way I can reach MC. It's good that Hive is opening such an access. I only need 1,668 HP to reach that 5,750 target.
Your first target is 4,500. Cant get to 5750 without going through that first.
Keep building and the activity up and you will get there.
It will take me two to three months perhaps to add 418 HP.
Nice! Im currently sitting at 5,570. I was looking for the hp or vet levels to reach Dolphin status the other day and couldn’t find it easy enough on hivebuzz.me or hivestats.io. I’m still super excited about reaching Dolphin status this year.
Having that 5,750 HP in mind give me a nice target to shoot for…
Another Dolphin in the making. Keep growing your HP. Increase the activity and you will likely get there faster.
I didn't realize that the gap between the groups are that big. I am still a minnow, and I hope to continue growing my account. I do agree that smaller account should strive to increase their stake.
Every level is a 10x of the level before.
It is a promising post that the middle class is growing because it needs to and fast because in my opinion this ship is going down. The only posts that are being read are the controversial ones. The whales are taking the mick with the DHF fund. Valueplan case and point. There is 0 marketing. I don't count buying a rally car as marketing by the way or a bunch of lads jumping around on poles with a couple of Hive tshirts getting 250k per year in HBD. But where is the end game here? If Hive was going to get popular as a use case it would have done so by now. The platform has to move into a gaming platform like Ronin to survive but the ship is rudderless and EVM doesn't look to be coming. Splinterlands are proposing working on the DAO validators which means it could operate on its own chain and ultimately leave Hive. So some accounts may have the 100K plus and great effort put in like yourself but I don't see a happy ending here. The whales will syphon funds out until the price goes to nothing and the people that will be left with worthless tokens will be the middle class. We will fork again and start fresh with the mistakes we made from Hive. Those who post for the joy and the love of it. I made the decision not to have more than 5k in my HP as I do think we will be burnt in the long term and there are other projects on Hive that I can throw my rewards into , Leofinance being one of them that have a more promising future I think.
good perspective. Thanks.