Pay It Back Later

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Over the last few years, I have been keeping an eye on the Buy Now, Pay Later (BNPLs) services out there and reading articles from time to time. They have been a mild issue earlier, but since Covid restrictions, handouts and then "back to work" avoidance, they are finding that they are getting into trouble, because they they aren't turning a profit. Even though they have increased in usage massively over the last few years, the problem is, people are defaulting on what they have borrowed.

Oops.

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An economy running on debt is always going to fall into problems eventually, because at some point, there is not enough resources to service the debt repayments. And, with the largest user groups of these services being younger people and those who are financially illiterate, it is inevitable that they are going to struggle. After all, people are using BNPLs to pay for food and medicine, which doesn't demonstrate the picture of the financial health of the user, does it?

Providing debt services only works when there is the chance of getting that debt repaid. It is a bit like in the movies where someone is killed who owes a large debt to a bookie, and they go to the bookie as a suspect. However, the bookie explains that they have a motive to keep them alive to get their money back, not kill them. They don't want to have to write off bad debt.

But increasingly, these BNPLs are taking on bad debt. For instance, Afterpay is one of the largest in Australia and has a bad debt rate of just under 14% - which is massive! This means that in order to turn a profit, they have to not only cover all their costs, but also the bad debt. And they are unable to.

However, while the BNPLs can disappear, this doesn't actually solve the problem for the people who instantly gratified and delayed their pain, because they still carry the burden of that debt with them. This is going to affect their ability to get loans in the future, but also, it means that they are likely to become even more reliant on social services. This means that their bad debt get spread around all the people who have acted with financial responsibility.

Whilst the idea of "society" means also taking care of the most vulnerable in the community, this is also a kind of debt system. The more people who shift into the vulnerable state, the more resources it takes to look after them and eventually, there just aren't enough to cover the debts. This is why they are looking to "tax the rich" as if that is going to solve the problem, when it is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the debt burden.

Not only that, tax money doesn't actually go to improving wellbeing anyway, as politicians are beholden to the corporations that enable them, so in order to keep their jobs, they have to also keep the system going. So, they take on more debt, but don't spend it on improving the lives of the many, but rather, improving the bank accounts of the few.

I had a discussion with my wife the other day about how the government here spends its money and how it doesn't actually work in our best interests. For instance, they are making hundreds of millions in cuts across social services including health care, whilst spending tens of billions on military spending. And I get it, people here are afraid of Russia, but the value of Finland is in its people, not in its land. If the degradation of society keeps sliding in the direction it is, at some point, what is there left to save?

Human debt.

We can't increase wellbeing in a debt system across the board, because even if we can manipulate it for a short period of time by using debt to artificially "inflate the value", eventually the line of credit runs dry, and the creditors are making their demands with interest. And, this is why no government is able to keep increasing standards of living for all citizens, because eventually they don't have enough to go around. This has been further sped up by corporate taxation practices, which takes more tax money outside of the places it was earned, without having to put anything into the local community. Less money for the government, less tax-paying jobs, more money going outside the borders. Another debt-driving system.

If we consume more than we grow, we are living in a debt system - we are living outside of our means. It is like filling up a bucket with holes in it. If more is leaking out than is going in, eventually the bucket is empty. The economy is the leakiest bucket of all, but what leaks out isn't lost into the ground to become part of the water table again - it is captured by the fraction of society who has the largest, most well-sealed buckets in history.

If only people did the right thing.

But, that is never really going to happen, because the incentives of the economy aren't aligned to do the right thing for society, they are to do he right thing for the individual. No one seems to want to acknowledge themselves as a part of the problem in this, but while we keep on finding ways to gratify our personal desires, we are putting less into the communities in which we live. We isolate ourselves indoors and behind screens, we don't know the neighbors, and we don't volunteer at the schools - and then we wonder what has happened to the sense of community.

BNPLs prey on individualism, and instant gratification habits. They drive FOMO, and manipulate people who don't read or understand the fine print. And people sign up because they believe that they are going to be taken care of in some way, shape or form by society, because that is their "right" as a member of the community. What community are we members of these days exactly, for us to feel that they should take care of us?

We are all going to pay later.

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]



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Here in Canada, as in other first world countries, they are implementing what they call a feed-back economy, which is something like a 50% down payment, you take the product and the other 50% is financed in three interest-free instalments; instalments that are paid every 14 days. If you pay the instalments in advance, you earn points redeemable on future purchases. The important thing is, you get to take the item home and not wait to pay for it in full to enjoy it.

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They used to have "lay-buy" or "lay-away" back in the day - but the product wasn't available until it was paid off. It teaches some level of patience at least, as well as some kind of buyer's remorse when the shine of what was purchased, faded before the product was received. This is all about FOMO now - instant gratification habits spill into all parts of society.

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I remember when I was a kid there was a thing called lay away at the department stores. It was basically buying something ahead of time, but the store held onto it until you paid it off. So people would go and make a payment every week. Then we have the rental places and those have been a downfall for people for years. They are probably one of the main reasons the collection agencies stay in business!

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Oh, I was just talking about lay away in another comment. Even that (which wasn't great) was better than this now. It would be interesting to have statistics on how long good feelings last after purchase and, how many people truly have buyer's remorse.

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I always get buyers remorse. All the time, no matter how big or small of a purchase it is I feel. Even if it's something that we really needed too. It's a curse!

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Some countries encourage a credit system...almost like they want us to be perpetually reliant on the model

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One of the things that’s annoying is that we could do massive infrastructure programs, with restrictions in place that could be a whole different discussion, and it could rebuild the crumbling infrastructure of the many countries of the world, get people to work and put a lot of money into pockets. This would pay off in spades and it may lead to more debt perhaps but I think it could lead to less as more people are employed and full time, busier and less time for that type of shit. Granted that doesn’t create the dependent, soft people that are so desired by the woke ideologues that seem to be running the show in many realms but it makes sense for the average people like you and I. It takes millions of people and puts them to work in various roles and levels and could be a huge win for everyone. It’s all dreams of course but there are so many options and ways to get out of this debt hole that we are in, it seems like it’s got to be a conspiracy to keep people in debt. Some whacky shit dude.

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Debt spending can be used to invest in the future, or steal from it. I think much of what goes on now is for stealing purposes, to line pockets now and secure control for later.

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I use credit card for paying the bills as those bills are coming on the odd days of the month which is 20th of the month. For which I use credit card which has this pay it back later system with zero interest enabled. But the thing is that instead of paying back on time, for some reason bills continue to pile up. I used to be die hard opponent of credit cards but now paying municipal bills using cards. Time does make you change.

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Change for the better? This is the problem with credit cards. If not paying the total off in the "interest-free" period, the interest will be paid on the entire amount borrowed. This means that it can slowly keep creeping up, until it becomes another bill that needs to be paid.

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It has been a long time since I've heard about "buy now pay later". We have some form of it left in the Philippines, with credit card companies. You buy something with card, and you delay the payment of it next month, and can even be split up with zero interest. I don't think BNPL companies that you mentioned would last long unless they change how they operate. In the US, I think it is easier to declare for bankruptcy so those BNPL companies are taking huge risks.

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They are taking risks, but they are taking it on the back of society. They might fail, but what they are doing is a cost to everyone else, as when people file for bankruptcy, they aren't left to die in the street.

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Debt for consumption is always a foolish idea, it is however what we are conditioned to accept. The idea of using a credit card for purchases is common place.

Bottom line, you should only use surplus funds for consumption ( obviously I'm referring to non-essential consumption, holidays, entertainment, restaurants etc etc ), debt should only be used where it will generate a return, or is necessary to make a significantly larger purchase that is not practical to save up for

And of course we all know this, but lose sight of common sense when mired in the daily grind and drudge, constantly bombarded with mind numbing brainwashing media and desperately looking for something to trigger s dopamine hit.

If only it was so easy to maintain the helicopter perspective of our lives at all times

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And of course we all know this, but lose sight of common sense when mired in the daily grind and drudge, constantly bombarded with mind numbing brainwashing media and desperately looking for something to trigger s dopamine hit.

And this is the problem. We are so connected to the influences that trigger our FOMO, that we end up buying what we don't want, and then having our attention pulled to the next thing before we realize we didn't want the last.

If only it was so easy to maintain the helicopter perspective of our lives at all times

There will be an app one day.

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BNPL are something very dangerous. If people are already relying on debt to get by, a single mistake can destroy their life. I don't like it and it's why I definitely try to avoid getting into so much debt.

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Yep. And the people using them are generally people who aren't very good with finances, otherwise, they wouldn't need to use a BNPL

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We even have so many loan applications or companies that have shut down here because they lend people money and those people were not able to pay back.
But I feel it is not fair. It is always better to pay late than not pay at all
Would you believe that some people may go as far as borrowing $10k without the mindset of returning the money?
That’s very bad

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