A debt and Deceit Account
I was reading an article that in itself wasn't very interesting, but was about an idea that I hadn't thought too much about, though I have some experience with it.
Infidelity.
Financial infidelity.
Financial infidelity is a negative money behavior, known as a money disorder, in which financial deceit is performed toward a romantic partner.
While I haven't experienced it in the extreme like people who have lost their life savings and homes to a partner who gambles or has a drug addiction, I have experienced it at a low-grade level. Small things, where a person would lie about the money they were spending and on what, or lie about the price of what they spent on an item, citing "discounted" far too often.
Discount is always a poor way to frame a purchase, because unless it is actually a needed item, whatever is spent, is an extra cost. Having said that, it is nice when a price comes down enough on a wanted item to consider buying it.
The problem in the relationship wasn't the amounts that were being spent, it was that it was being done in secret, and talked about in a way to deceive. In my opinion, it spoke to the person's ethics, and indicated a potentially larger problem in the future, though at that age, I didn't really pay much attention to our future together.
If we consider that "money" in some form is one of the most talked about topics between couples, and one of the most common sources of arguments and stress in the home, it is clear to see why financial infidelity can be such a problem. Whilst one is trying to manage household finances, the other is undermining the situation and not only making it harder, but also hiding the evidence so it isn't considered until it might be too late to do anything about it.
Have you ever experienced financial infidelity?
I was thinking about this in other ways also though. There is the obvious lying about spending and generating debts on hidden credit cards, but there might be other forms too. For instance, what if a person lies about their career aspirations, saying that they are trying to advance, trying to get a promotion or raise, but aren't actually putting in the effort to get there? Is that infidelity also?
When it comes to "cheating" financially, it speaks to security, which is about the future. Gambling away a nest egg, overspending on credit, impacts on future conditions, conditions that the other person might be relying upon. In the article, about 20% of people saw financial infidelity as worse than physical cheating.
This might be because while it is possible to walk away from someone for cheating, it isn't possible to walk away from the debt they have generated, or get back the money they have lost. That money might have taken decades to build, the house lost might have been generational, the debt accrued might take decades to pay off. The impact of being cheated on financially, could be devastating. And it will not only be the emotional impact of the relationship ending, but will also affect relationships to come, as a person saddled with debt and no assets, sets up challenges for a new relationship also.
I don't know how common financial deceit is in extreme cases, but I would suspect that in mild instances, it is relatively common. This might be where someone lies about the cost of the new shoes they bought, how much they spent at the hairdresser, or the cost of the new gadget they bought.
Is it a problem?
At a small scale, not really perhaps. But, when it becomes habitual, and if it is impacting on plans that the other person thought were part of the relationship, then for sure, it is an issue. If a relationship is built on trust, that trust has to cover everything that is important to the couple, and that includes home financials.
In my opinion, a relationship needs more than just trust to be successful. It has to be two people willing to work with each other toward a better life together. This includes many aspects, but there has to be the openness to help each other be the best version of themselves, and vice versa. Too often, the changes that people want the other to make isn't in the best interest of the person making the change, or the relationship, it is just to make life easier for the one demanding it. That is not a good reason to demand change in someone you care about.
In Finland, the extremes of financial infidelity are likely less common, because it is normal for a couple to keep their finances separate. For instance, my wife and I have separate accounts for our salaries, but a joint account for our mortgage repayments, that we both transfer into. We share costs in pretty much every way without there being a ledger of who is spending what, but large amounts and large credit debt can't be hidden away.
This is financially healthier in many respects, and it also makes it easier to walk away from a relationship. In my opinion, relationships are opt-in and no one should have to stay in a relationship they don't want to, because of financial considerations. Though, many do.
While it is not a risk as I have very little, I wouldn't want my wife to stay with me because she doesn't want to wear the financial impact, I want her to choose to be with me, because she sees value in me as a person.
I wish I was rich.
Taraz
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They tie into each other. If I came home one day and told my wife that I met a woman who really liked the look of me, and offered me $1000 to sleep with her, she'd be delighted to hear I went through with it. She's not the jealous type and that's a lot of money :)
Naturally I'd feel very differently if she was the one being propositioned.
I think my wife would approve 500.
Don't go undercutting me, bro. I need this.
'I wish I was rich.'
You are rich already. You wish to be wealthy. :)
"rich" sounds so much dirtier. ;)
agree.
filthy rich...
We do this. Maybe in part because we’re both in our sixties and both had established a variety of accounts before marrying. My wife calls it one pair of pants, two pockets.
:D I like this a lot!
It seems connected to one of those issues people are super reluctant to actually look at when they form relationships: "Are we financially compatible?"
Finances often reveal parts of personality — along with psychological issues — we don't really get to see in other ways. Sometimes what's happening is someone trying to "fill an empty space inside" by acquiring things that will never fill that space... and the empty space is about old trauma, not even about the current relationship.
Yes, I've experienced variations.
My ex was an uncontrolled spendthrift who ran up some US $60K in consumer debt. Interestingly enough, she was very capable of managing and living on "no money" when we met, but her "retail therapy" ramped up at a much faster pace than our income rose. The woman I was in a multi-year relationship with subsequently very openly admitted to being "stupid with money" and I should have recognized that as a warning sign... she pretty much "impulsed" everything in her life in the moment never pausing to even consider that the money had to come from somewhere. She was a senior engineer in the IT industry and just knew she had a 6-figure income *(USD, 1990s) and that "should be enough" to get her whatever she pointed at. In a sense, it was "revenge spending" against a childhood where her parents had money but refused to ever buy anything.
All just goes to show that the Human Psyche is a strange place.
At least from the media perspective, we can often see how incompatibility turns out with celebrities.
This reminds me of a friend who is the finance director at a pharma, and married a teacher. When they first married his partner was thrifty and quite "left" in her opinion of wealth. It didn't take long to change her mind though.
I don't know if you are still in touch with the ex, but I wonder if they ever matured into a different financial frame.
it is best to have a joint account. And the apartment is as open as possible. but the other side must have an understanding of the problem.
what do you mean for the open apartment?
I indulge in coffee without my wife. Don't tell her.
A worse betrayal than hookers and blow.
It kind of is. I love coffee more than I could ever love either of those.
Finances is definitely one of the big topics that a couple should discuss before they get married. I have read a lot of stories of couples divorcing because of it. They need to agree on a setup that works for them. The setup of my parents is something that I think works. They each get an 'allowance' that goes to their personal bank accounts, and the rest are put in a joint account. The joint account is used for all the house related needs; food, mortgage, repairs, etc. They are free to do or buy with their allowances. So if they want a costly item, they have to save up for it.
That is a good setup for some I think. I reckon my wife and I should formalize ours more, rather than just going with the flow. I am worse with money than my wife, but due to knowing this, I am also more structured in my spending.
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Wow, never heard it shaped like this. Financial infidelity should be preached so as to alert young adults to truly examine their partners. A marriage with trust and selflessness will lack financial infidelity, so I am using this medium to encourage young adults to truly know their partners while dating before marriage.
I know not all can be known, so you and your partner should be honest and set family goals together and clearly state anyone doing otherwise is undermining and ruining the family, that should go far if both parties are mentally sound, if not they should see a therapist or your partner might just be a gold digger sorry to say.
A partner who can lie about one thing can lie about anything and it's worrisome because if one's found out, trust is broken.
My partner and I were once into a business partnership where he was in charge of distributing our goods to our customers and I was involved in the accounts part. When things were not adding up at some point, I became so worried, only to discover that on the occasions he had been paid physical cash by our customers, he had withheld them from me. "They have not paid yet", was the answer I kept getting from him until I decided to visit these so-called debtors myself. I couldn't believe the can of worms! Trust broken! Relationship broken! Period!
You only can decide if you would be able to put up with such infidelity or deception.
I think it's a smart idea to separate the accounts as it allows the two of you more freedom. The joint account being used for the mortage or living costs sounds like a great idea. If I do have a partner, I would want one who wants to stay with me because of me as well so I think you have found a great partner.
Splitting accounts is good for numerous reasons. It is always better to have a dedicated savings account, or emergency account too.
Financial infidelity means end of a relationship most of the times, if it's really heavy like gambling...you can escape from it, debt don't transfer to the other element of the couple unless married and with shared goods
One story I was reading was where a guy spent 400K in savings and then went into further debt, without his partner knowing until she went to buy a small business. crazy.
Yeah that numbers are just crazy, I mean if you have 400k and do gambling and it goes wrong and you reach 300k just stop, no way in hell you gonna recover 100k ... People who act like this don't even have a proper money management
My wife always tells me what she wants to buy. And I always agree with her. I guess I was lucky.
A perfect relationship :)
Wow, this is a new concept to me and some what hard to think about.
It hurts to think this could be possible, but after thinking it through it probably occurs more often then one would think.
Sigh.
:(
Financial infidelity surely is a new term to me, as I havent felt that yet. But what you mentioned that the discount money is surely a trick that cost some extra money going out of pocket in the act of buying.
It is way common for people everywhere, when I went to the market to buy a furniture, the offer was like " buy it with 25% less ". Also with installation on.
Which adds that - temptation was there to buy it, if the price was high, I wouldn’t be buying it anyway.
If only folks could show integrity and honesty. If only we treated others how we would want to be treated. Who wants to sleep with the enemy? Why are there so many singles out there? Selfishness and deceit for starters.