Splinterlands Town Hall Recap...SPS Staking Numbers Preview
I have to say that when Matt shows up we always have a reason to do a video sooner. I mean he only went over the new SPS staking stuff and I will do a video with a full review on that once the post is out. I love it but I have a lot of SPS. If you hate it my guess is you don't. I go over why I hope you can see how this can help and the other stuff they went over in the video.
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IGN: @solving-chaos
Why is it an issue that someone rents complete decks to get into champion? Isn't that the whole point of the renting system? If it only costs "a few bucks" it's because the rewards for renting those are also only a few bucks. If we were in a bull market with higher value SPS and cards, it would also cost more to rent.
No one is making it into champion with $100 investment of owned cards. I have invested over $10000 in cards and they are worth way less than that now. I "only" have 30k SPS and now, even with my owned maxed deck, apparently I can only earn 20% of the rewards for no reason other than greed.
Q: You asked, "Why is it an issue that someone rents complete decks to get into champion? Isn't that the whole point of the renting system?"
A: Isn't the whole point of the game about asset ownership? You don't play MTG or Pokemon on Rental cards. The winning formula is to copy what works and is proven over 20-30 years.
My point was we created two types of players, those that own assets and those that min/max everything and can play at the same level as you without much investment. Isn't that why BOT farms came about? It was about extracting value and making a profit. Not everyone adds value to the ecosystem.
I'm not against you, as you are an asset owner.
But some of the asset owners are to blame for this problem.
Some of them rent their extra cards for "next to nothing".
As a player, I will rent because it still makes sense for me to do so and earn more chest. But when rental prices are not aligned with the principle of: "it is better to own than rent", it creates a unique problem.
Imagine the Housing Industry, where renting a house is always cheaper than purchasing a home with a 30-year mortgage. That would tilt the markets in favor of renters and not owners. That is what is happening in SPL today.
We create a way for some players to play in Gold/Diamond and even Champ without owning assets. They are reaping the rewards (even if they are Soul Bound) --> which is a more significant proportion of the money they have in assets in the game. They are the ones that extract value from the system and created a problem for you, the asset owner of Splinterlands cards. You are left holding the bag of "depressed asset prices."
The whole point of the game is playing the game and having fun. That should be the first priority. If people weren't supposed to rent cards why would we have a rental system? Rents are low because assets have lost value, earnings are super low and we're on a bear global market. Who would rent cards for $10 if they could only earn $1 with them?
MTG and Pokemon don't have rental systems, but isn't the rental system on splinterlands sold to us as a big advantage? Anyway, I played MTG and MTGO for over a decade. MTGO is actually a play2earn game even without NFTs. In real life people lend cards to each other all the time. In MTGO some stores have implemented renting full decks to players.
Owning is still better than renting. Renting takes time and effort finding what you need. You also need to check if rents didn't get cancelled or expired. If you rent the same cards over and over for a long time you end up paying a lot for something you don't own. As long as you earn more than you spend it's fine but, as long as cards retain or increase value, it's way better to own if you can.
I have been a gamer when games were still in black and white.
The fact is, when it comes to games, there are many reason people play. Otherwise, the idle-clickers like Rising Star or even TerraCore would never exist. Why do some people play Clash of Clans? or Candy Crush? I don't see these are fun games, yet there is a place for them. So that common statement used by thousands of folks is just not a valid point. Those same people may play "games" that are not even considered games themselves if they can extract value (SplinterForge, Golem Lord, etc.).
This is the same with TCG. It's a particular type of game that SPL is trying to copy. So if they keep on using this SPL is not a "fun" argument, then forgot that this is a free market, and NO one forced them to play SPL. Go play Rising Star or Sorare instead.
"Owning is still better than renting." While I see you type this, this is what I think I disagree on. Based on how the games are set up today, you can borrow a deck for nothing as a scholar, play for free and split a reward. Or you can rent cards, which is cheaper than owning the asset if I can rent LUX for 400/DEC a day; that is cheap when the market price of LUX is $900+. I can rent it for 5 years and still pay less than owning a LUX card. So renting today is better than OWNING. This is why asset mispricing HURT the OWNERS. This is why RENTAL systems today HURT the owners. This is why some CARD OWNERS are hurting themselves and everyone else how OWNS cards.
Never would I say renting is NOT supposed to happen. It is just a different pricing structure. But when the pricing structure encourages more ROI with RENTAL users, it upsets owners (like what you shared about your personal experience as an OWNER). In the previous post, you suggested that you went "APE-IN" (heavily invested) with SPL cards and haven't reaped any ROI. I also own assets, but I use rental cards because it still makes more sense to rent higher-level cards. I rent my extra cards, earning next to nothing (~5 DEC a day). This upset me as an OWNER of cards because the mispricing benefits the rental users.
Then a system is designed and creates winners/and losers; people will determine how to take advantage of that. This is the reason for BOT Farms and multi-accounting. There is a reason why nearly every SPL-TV streamer has 5-10 accounts. If the incentives were aligned right, this would not be the common theme along players. BOT FARMS are still around. Multi-Accounting is still around.
Many of the last year's changes have reduced some benefits, and this one will continue that trend.
DEC and other currencies are also assets. You need to have a lot of DEC in order to rent a diamond/champ deck.
I have no problem with people renting. I've done it for over a year, I just now started buying cards (and already regret it seeing how they keep dropping and dropping).
I agree 100%.
Awesome!
Ouch, those Gold requirements are higher than I'd like. As someone who is just beginning to push into Gold this will set me back a bit. I will need a further 18-9k SPS to earn similar rewards at Gold 3. But I now have a real reason to buy SPS.
Looks like I'll be redirecting income toward SPS.
Overall though, I see this as a positive step to go forward for the ecosystem - will be interesting to see the price of SPS and how these numbers change should we get a sudden movement in SPS price.
IGN: holdeck2
Thanks for the recap. The NFTY arcade results are a bit underwhelming. I am curious how it will work with the SPS requirements in the horizon. Will they include SPS staking on the decks? The SPS requirements are a bit too high for my liking. I have always been staking the SPS I get, but I'm still only at 2400 SPS. It's good enough for Silver 3, but still so far from S2 and S1, which is where I usually play at. I'm just hoping this change increases our SPS rewards, so we can get back to where we play fast.
I honestly couldn't care less about NFTy. I never expected anything from that and it looks like the numbers confirm my expectations.
About the SPS, the numbers are just absurd. They should be about 5 to 10 times less than what they announced. This won't be good for anyone. It doesn't matter if you have a lot of SPS. Do you want to be playing this game alone?
This is not the first time I disagree with the team but it's the first time they made me lose their trust. Unless they lower those numbers by a lot, the only hope for this game is for it to be taken from their hands.
I am buying as much SPS as I can every week now, I can definitely see it climbing in price for the next couple of months leading up to the rollout at end of next quarter.
Thanks for the recap SteveR! I'm not sure how I feel about the new SPS requirement. It's probably good for the economy, but I don't have near what I need to be playing in Diamond . I already put a lot into the game, but I'm not sure if I want to put in thousands more just to stake it when there's land and tower defense on the way too... ign: @hodlonius
i tried using their bronze deck and most of useful cards are not there and the split for players are too low. for me, it's better to rent, you can make a profit. i renting cards in wild format for only 300-400 dec but the sps i farm is almost 50 sps. About the league sps staking, maybe I should wait for it to be implemented before I complain. thanks for the recap Steve!
ign: senyong
I have a ton of SPS too, but i think these numbers are absurd, if we consider the majority of the player base. And what happens if/when sps goes up in price? Dozens of thousands of dollars to get decent rewards in a gold league?
Congratz to hodlonius for winning the 100 SPS stack! The account security is also a good update to be added. and my man, you have over 400k SPS staked already so the new update wont hurt you. I knew staked SPS going to replace collection power and has been powering up all the SPS I earn, but I only have 78k staked at the moment and in order to play in D1, I need another 100k now! Great video stever!
D=Please count me for the next SPS giveaway :)
Always appreciate the take in the vids.
I didn't say just count me in :)
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Thanks as always for the summary.
On what I think is the big topic (SPS staking requirements.)
Fingers crossed. Probably should cross my toes, too.
that was fast!
I love the new requirement for SPS.
It makes sense & removes the cumbersome CP limit.
You still need a strong CP to get to the levels anyhow.
Very bullish on SPS & love all the salty spicyness.
NFTY has been granted a Golden opportunity & the tools to find a pathway for new players. Good luck to them.
I am looking more into how a Scholar program works & some beefy SPS delegation could work well in such a scenario of reward-sharing.
(Also, appreciate your playing of SpiderTanks the other day. It is good to see beyond the echo chamber & love your Bullishness on all things fun).
I thought I had a large stash of SPS staked (33k) and felt quite sheepish when I look these requirements.
Thanks for the recap
To me, the amount of sps required to be staked just seems too much. Also, I beleive it discourages new players and even a lot old players. I think maybe, just reduce the amount of staked sps to an acceptable level.
As always thanks for your recap.
I don't know really know why so many people don't like these changes, because it was written in the white paper and they announced it in thy roadmap.
But on the other side I would like if Splinterlands would develop itself a little bit more like a normal web2 game. For now Splinterlands is really complicated and it gets more and more complicated, so new players won't give it a new chance.
IGN: @flummi97
NFTY Arcade is a different way of onboarding new players to the game and it doesn't cost any money for Splinterlands to market these folks, so I hope we keep this program going for years to come. I don't get why people are complaining this has caused the rental market revenues to go down as onboarding new people can only help the rental market long term. NFTY should also create Silver and Gold League decks and new players who have tried a Bronze level deck for a season could choose to upgrade to Silver or Gold for their 2nd season. We all know that rewards are better as you move up leagues and having new players stay in Bronze for their test period may not give them the full earning picture.
IGN: cryptobeaver
Hi Steve. Well great video, again. I/We knew this was coming with the sps. But I have a few issues with it. 1. Timing. They could have waited with this announcement after they would announce that rift watchers pack could be bought with dec. Now no one (ore maby 1 or 2) will buy them enny more because you need the sps for staking. 2. Now the burning sps for dec (when it be at peg) will not be used so Mutch. Again lower playing/staking players will not burn sps for dec. So they will not upgrade the guilds ore there packs with dec. 3. I think it is way to high for certain leagues. Because the amount of sps you win By playing, ore in chest is not big enough for players (with low income) to progress to higher leagues without investing a big amount of extra money. That they would normally put into cards.leveling them up.
Now the things I do like
You are right. People need to invest to play a game. And can’t only relaying on the income of the game.
For lower leagues like bronze/silver the amount is except-able.
So in my mind I am battling with 2 issues
Now you forgot to say that rebellion will likely come out at the end of the year ore beginning of 2024
But still a great recap. And there will be a lot of people that will not like the sps part
I can't say I didn't expect this. Back when my !PIZZA guild community saw the changes to staking SPS requirements "coming soon", I had already anticipated that the SPS needed would be close to the amounts required for staked SPS in Splinterlands tournaments.
My only concern now is that the SPL team has said they wanted to improve the new player experience. Will this do that? New players will be hard pressed into throwing a whole lot of money into the game which doesn't even give them any cards.
wow that's a lot of sps! thanks for the recap, and yeah I always watch your full video's 😉
I run 2 silver accounts, I'm close to 10k in total... I guess only my main account is going to keep earning a lot, I'll buy some extra
Thanks for the recap Steve!
I think the numbers for the staked SPS requirements are pretty high. I hope they'll lower the numbers a bit at least
@highhaschdi
I think the Team did a good job with the first iteration of SPS staking requirements.
It really rewards all the long terrm holders and players in the game and keeps encouraging everyone to stake more SPS. Hopefully rising SPS prices follows soon!
Here to support Steve! Keep up the good work. (And no I won't be able to play in Diamond with SPS staking)
Thanks for the great recap! I like the idea of SPS staking but I don't think the numbers have been tuned correctly. It's way too expensive for people like me who have put a great effort into leveling their deck but are also not millionaires. I've got a max CL deck and I'm playing in Champ 2 but I've only got 44K staked SPS. My chests will be nerfed by 70%. That's not cool. Investment in cards should not feel bad since this is first and foremost a game.
I have just a bit over 6k SPS staked. Never unstaked a dime, and I still don't have enough to play in silver, not to mention gold (where I play currently)
count me in, please. @circlebubble
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The numbers seem pretty good to me given the curve allows you to earn 80% of rshares with half of the sps requirement and so on. Thanks for the video!
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(tip of the cap) You were right 😀
ign: synist3r
Sadly I am nowhere near the staked sps that is required for the level I play at the moment. I hope I don't get a too big of a hit to earnings but it is what it is. It is interesting that I have not sold a single sps, everything I got went to staking and I am still so so far away and they say this is the average staked by league with a bit over, but I think it is probably something like 3x 4x the average or at least I hope so 😅
unstaking all my farmed sps just to be converted into dec for renting then play/farm again. sometimes there's profit(buy packs/xtra cards) sometimes none. This updated is not just for me. Seeing a lot of people from discord and other social media platforms selling their spl accounts. When spl could be just a leisure and now it is asking US(peasants) to pay for them AGAIN. smh. scholarship and delegated decks is the last resort.
entering giveaways is my coping mechanism.😅
Count me in 🤣
I don't particularly mind the staking requirements. The only thing I don't like is the crazy high amounts needed. I do like that this gives buying pressure on sps but I feel like this is just going to make bronze, silver, and possibly gold much harder as my guess is the majority of players won't have the sps needed for gold, diamond, or champion leagues. My guess is that after a few seasons at the current levels, that there will be enough backlash from the player base that the dev team will adjust and lower the sps values needed for full shares. IMO, the levels should be more aligned to how much you earn on average within each league (i.e. silver 1 earns about $2 of sps a season, so maybe need $10 of sps for max rshares)
Ign: eternalpaw
I did a post on my blog about the switch to SPS from Collection Power and I feel like it is a good thing even though I don't have much SPS.
I think it was a bad call to label that table column heading "SPSP Req." because it led to confusion since they are replacing Power with SPS staking and you had to have Power to get into the higher league. In this case you don't have to have SPS to get into the higher league your rewards are going to be lower than a baseline.
We need SPS to be higher that would bring more people just like you mentioned though outside guilds via NFTY, etc.
I only have 2k SPS at the moment and I would like to stay in Gold. I'm also stressing out about how I'm going to find 50k more SPS to earn without penalty. I was already stressing because I actually have a bronze deck playing in Gold. So this announcement becomes like double stress for me as I need to upgrade my deck to max Silver and find 48k more SPS in the near future.
@jhuleader