What if we could transfer HIVE POWER?
Hello SPIers, today we look at "What if we could transfer HIVE POWER".
What do I mean by transfer HIVE POWER?
As it sounds, we can transfer liquid HIVE to any other HIVE account, even accounts that dont exist, we can do the same with liquid HBD so why not HIVE POWER?
I understand it sounds crazy and it would never happen because HIVE POWER is staked HIVE and the whole point of staking is to "lock up" but at the same time, we're always exploring new ideas and ways to use HIVE are add some value to the eco-system. Recurring payments are the perfect example of adding value to HIVE.
Why would anyone want to transfer HIVE POWER? when we can delegate
Well, to cash out and bypass the 13-week powerdown. People who maintain more than 1 HIVE account could use an HP transfer feature to consolidate all their HP to 1 main account but ultimately it would be used as a way to cash out HP without the 13-week power down.
How? Someone would offer liquid HIVE for HIVE POWER. They might pay 90% the HIVE value and the person cashing out would pay 10% to bypass the 13-week powerdown. Sounds like alot but if the price of HIVE jumps 40-60% in a few days, do you want to wait 13 weeks?
Could SPI offer a HP > HIVE service like this now?
I think yes, nothing like transferring HP of course but the end result, yes. It would require the person looking to cash out their HIVE POWER to start a powerdown and set it up so SPI would be the receiver in a multi-sig transaction. This transaction would require permission from both the person cashing out HP and SPI for it to become active, changed or cancelled. After SPI signs the transaction, we'd transfer the person's liquid HIVE and we'd get that HIVE back over the next 13 weeks as the powerdown is paid into the SPI account.
Ethically, I am not sure how this would be viewed by the larger HIVE community. The whole point of the 13-week powerdown is to keep the HIVE price more stable and we would be monetizing that for profit. Im honestly surprised nobody has done this before cause it seems like a really easy way to earn a massive yield from liquid HIVE. Maybe it has been tried and it was killed off by the HIVE police are something. Interesting all the same.
What do you think?
It's a pointless thought really because we'll never see the day when we can transfer HIVE POWER are staked HBD for that matter. My thoughts wander sometimes and you can see how my mind works. I start with a silly thought like transferring HP and turn it into a HP > HIVE service SPI could offer. lol. Im telling you, it would make alot of money. It would require alot of liquid HIVE to get started but it would yield way more, way way more than whatever we can earn with HP 🤑.
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Can't you cancel the transfer, for example in week 3?
Therefore the multi-sig transaction, but I don´t know how to set this up for one, or in fact 2 transactions (in this case the PD itself and the "outgoing withdraw route").
We can create multi-sig transactions on HIVE and we can have the HIVE from a powerdown paid to a different account but together, im not 100% to be honest. Anything can be done with code.
very innovative ideas, if this type of double-assignment contract already exists (I don't know), then it seems like it just needs to be put into practice!
In practice, you would receive the HIVE payment in installments and with interest, through the powerdown transaction with the beneficiary. This powerdown transaction cannot be canceled without confirmation from both parties, so there is no risk of not receiving payment.
The risk is assumed by the user, who will need to trust that the project has liquid resources to deliver, and that the project will in fact deliver, as this is another transaction, to be carried out unilaterally. Am I right?
Correct
Im also not sure if this contract exists already but with code, if we can think it we can pay someone to make it possible.
The bulk of the risk would be with the user getting the promised amount of HIVE for SPI. If it were ever set up, SPI would have a dedicated account for this and users would be free at any time to check the account to see its balance and powerdowns. SPI (i think) has a pretty good rep for those that know about it.
Thanks for the cool comment, I can tell you read the post.
Of course I read the text... it's a great text by the way, and I'm not a video consumer so I really appreciate quality written content. Thanks for posting!
I know little about the SPI project. My intention in raising the issue of trust in the debate is that it could be a weakness for the project, if it ever comes to fruition, in terms of obtaining new users. Only those who already know and trust would be able to carry out the business.
Thank you for answering me, it's great to know that I was read too!
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Hello, SPI is a small niche project known to very few on HIVE so your point is very valid. After some thought, trust can be removed by adding an extra transaction to the multi-sig.
The process would be the same as before except when SPI signs, HIVE would be automatically sent to the user before the transaction is confirmed. If the liquid HIVE is not in the SPI account, the transaction would fail.
Thanks for your feedback and input, this is where I learn the most. I should have already thought to make the complete transaction automated. So we now have a v2 😁
Interesting idea, but as you say, this undermines the PD time, and could lead to even more PDs than we have already.
Probably 10% is even too low, I would ask for 20% or more!
Wieso meinst du würde das zu mehr PD führen?
Ich glaube, wenn es die 13 Wochen nicht gäbe, wären einige verleitet, sofort an ihre HP zu gehen, wenn sie z.B. gerade Geld brauchen oder eine interessantere Investitionsgelegenheit sehen. Nicht viele, aber doch einige.
Aber es geht ja hier nur darum, daß es eine Möglichkeit gibt die 13 Wochen zu umgehen, aber nicht diese abzuschaffen.
Es wird nur liquid Hive eines Nutzers gegen HP eines anderen getauscht. Das würde ja zu gar keinem PD führen.
Oder habe ich das falsch verstanden?
Doch, man könnte dann seine HP downpowern und würde sofort (gegen eine 10%-Pönale) die ganze Summe bekommen, statt 13 Wochen darauf zu warten.
Wie ein Kredit, zu bekommst z.B. 9000 Hive sofort, musst aber dafür 10000HP downpowern mit SPI als Empfänger der 13 Raten.
Also ich habe es so verstanden, du bekommst von mir 90 Hive (sofort) und ich bekomme von dir 100 Hivepower übertragen
Ja, aber da man HPs eben nicht senden kann, geht es nur über PD und withdraw vesting route an den Empfänger.
https://hive.blog/hive-148441/@sacrosanct/how-do-i-set-the-withdrawal-of-my-powered-down-hive-automatically-credited-to-a-hive-account-different-from-my-hive-account
Scheinbar ist es schon möglich es auch als Powerup zu senden, also quasi ein Transfer.
Wo steht das in dem von Dir verlinkten post? Da sehe ich nur das gleiche, was ich auch geschrieben habe, die vesting route eines PDs auf einen anderen account zu ändern.
In der Grafik der unterste weg und der 2 Punkt.
Das Routing kann scheinbar auch als Powerup statt nur als Liquid Hive erfolgen.
Der unterste Weg beschreibt, dass Du ein Powerup zu einem anderen Account machen kannst (dafür gibt es sogar einen eigenen Badge (Powerup Helper), aber dazu brauchst Du flüssige Hive. Gestakte kann man nicht transferieren, nur deligieren.
Richtig du benötigst Liquid Hive was du dann durch den Powerdown bekommst.
Geht aber darum, daß dann aber automatisch ein Powerup erfolgt.
Du kannst also einstellen, daß die Zielperson am Ende keine Hive hat, sondern HP, da die ja automatisch für ein Powerup gebutzt werden.
Die Ziel Person müsste ein Powerdown machen um Hive zu haben.
Genau, das geht aber nur, wenn der Sender liquide Hive hat, ist wie der normale Powerup, nur mit einem anderen Empfänger (das kann man auch mit HBD savings machen, sie auf einen anderen account saven).
Was nicht geht ist gestakede Hive auf einen anderen Hive account zu übertragen. Ich hoffe, das ist jetzt endgültig geklärt.
Doch kannst du übertragen, es passiert nur eben technisch ein Zwischenschritt und es passiert nicht sofort.
Du führst direkt ein Powerdown in einen Poweup über.
Ausgang sind HP und Ziel sind ebenfalls HP. Das dazwischen Hive entstehen ist doch irrelevant
Es sind einfach 2 unterschiedliche Operationen, es gibt keinen direkten HP-Transfer, denn Du kannst nicht in der gleichen Operation bestimmen, dass die Hive von der vesting withdraw route dann auch aufgepowert werden, dazu bräuchtest Du den Schlüssel des Empfängers.
Wenn Du HP-Transfer so definierst, dass Du jemandem Hive gibst und er powert sie dann auf, dann ja, aber das ist nicht die Definition von HP-Transfer.
Scheinbar geht es ja doch, guck dir die Grafik an in dem Link, denn da kannst du ein Häkchen setzen, das ein Powerup automatisch erfolgen soll.
Das stimmt, ist für mich aber trotzdem kein HP-Transfer, da dafür ein PD nötig ist.
Kommt aber dem nahe, da eben der Empfänger HP am Ende hat und nicht Hive.
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Yea, I'd prob ask for 20% to be honest. Just wrote 10% to numb it. Would probally piss alot of whales off (or they steal the idea and use their vast amounts of HIVE to undercut us and make all the HIVE for themselves)
But this (one time) profit has its price. You would need to keep tons of Hive liquid in order to run such a service. Which is a shame, especially in a bull market, right?
Yes, lots of liquid HIVE. Like 100k-200K minimum to start with.
Bull market and bear market are same same if the goal is to produce a yield from HIVE.
Wow such a brilliant idea, indeed that would save so much time.... 13 weeks is a really long time and I get it, we need to stake but your idea is simply brilliant 👌👌👌💯
I get good ideas from time to time. I think it would do really well, and be used alot but I think the overall HIVE community would frown on it.
Thanks for checking out the post and dropping a supportive comment
You're most welcome, well whether it's frowned on or not , I think it's brilliant
Might be worth testing on a small scale to see if its a problem are not.
Absolutely man, testing is very necessary before 👌👌
A lot of the liquid Hive is present on Upbit where bulk of the volume and price is dictated by that exchange. I don't understand the part of keeping the price of Hive stable when other alt coins are doing better with welcome volatility. I could understand it if it's HBD but not really Hive.
I wish more people thought like you 😁
If they did, SPI would actually be able to launch a service like this without the fear of HIVE whales.
Only 1 (major) problem.
Since you have to sign 2 transactions before sending the liquid Hive, what happens if:
Person 1 enables SPI on his account (active key multisigned thus 2 firms to allow tx).
Person 1 + SPI sign together Power Down tx (everything Ok until this point).
Then you (SPI) have to send the Liquid Hive.
But... what happens if the provider of the service (in this case SPI) refuses to send the liquid Hive?
Then you have a Power down enabled WITHOUT the ability to revert back the tx (since you need now 2 signers).
(Well, thinking about it as I write this you might reset the full set of keys with the owner, but this is a very sensible tx and 99% of users aren't really familiarised with it. )
You see the attack vector? If SPI goes rogue, things can go bad real fast (but well, in that particular case SPI has much more to loose Vs the end user).
Kindly regards :)
Someone else pointed this out above. The risk would be on the user to trust SPI to pay them the HIVE after both have signed. I dont think it would be that hard to code in the HIVE transaction so it's all automated. If the HIVE is not there to pay the user, the transaction fails.
Good feedback, now we have a V2 😉
Good question!
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I remember a service that paid liquid HIVE instead of HP as author rewards. You needed to set them as a/the beneficiary. I think it went bankrupt, but I don't think it had a fee, or it was a very low one, so that explains why...
Yeah, I agree, it probably won't be seen with good eyes the possibility to bypass the 13-week PD.
I remember that as well. They charged a very small fee, like 1% are something. They did it through beneficiaries for post-payouts. I liked the idea.
Im not getting any bad feedback so not sure if we should maybe go for it are not.
It wouldn't be the first time we pissed off the HIVE Police. Remember when we were all blacklisted from getting up-votes from some WHALE account? I remember that account used to support all the Steemitmamas... except for me.
Well, I hardly ever write anymore and my SPI fund keeps growing so... I win. !LOLZ
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