Being loyal or being taken advantage of?
I think I have reached that point in my life where I can officially say that I am old. It hasn't slipped my mind that I probably have more days behind me than I do ahead of me. It's just one of those facts of life.
Given that fact, it's safe to say that I grew up in a different world than we live in today. You will often hear people from the 80's talk about things like kids playing in the neighborhood until it got dark out, bicycles without helmets, riding in the back back of a station wagon, and crazy stuff like that.
I can't get the GIF to work, but as Han Solo said,
"It's true, all of it"
It occurs to me that there are a lot of concepts and ideals that once held a lot of weight but don't really fit into the world we live now. Most specifically, the idea of having a work ethic. I'm not saying I am the best example of that. I know many people who have a much better work ethic than I do.
I'm not talking about sports either, I think that falls into a different category, I know a fair number of young folks who have a dedication to their preferred sport that is beyond comparison.
Work on the other hand is a totally different story.
Like I said, I come from a time when things were different. I come from a time when loyalty to your job was something to be treasured. You did your job because you were grateful to have a job that could cover your bills and leave you a little bit of fun money as well.
At some point things started to shift and now it occurs to me that there is a fine line between being loyal to your job and being taken advantage of. It's a fuzzy line for sure.
It's interesting on a daily basis how some people will decline to do tasks that I would spend my free time at home to get done. Ultimately it makes my job easier. Then again, there are other times when I find myself drawing a line in the sand over what the technology department I run is actually responsible for.
It's easy to point to generational differences and say "that's where the problem is". I don't think blaming this on the millennials is going to fly this time.
I honestly don't have a reason why this shift has happened. That's part of the reason I am talking about this in the #reflections community. It's just some random thoughts that are kicking around my head.
Let's say you have a pretty decent job that you consider a career. If you were to quit that job tomorrow, how long would it take the company to replace you? How indispensable are you? When I consider the number of hours, weekends, late nights, and early mornings I have put into my job, does my company see that as loyalty?
For the longest time my salary wasn't indicative of that. Yet here I am still working for the same company. Again, does that make me loyal or does that just mean they are taking advantage of me? Where is the line drawn?
I apologize if this post feels a bit disjointed. As I said, these are just a lot of thoughts that have been floating around in my brain space for a while.
It would be cool if we could start some discussion around this. I'll actually be surprised if this post nets more than two or three comments and $10 in rewards! It's definitely going to be one of my shorter ones!
Sports Talk Social - @bozz.sports
I'm definitely old, but may be considered 'young at heart'. Our generation are very different to our parents who were kids in WWII. It's a state of mind even when the body is failing.
The deal between employer and worker ought to benefit both sides and treating people decently makes for better employees. If you treat them well then they may be willing to do a little extra. It may be different where the job does not need a lot of skills and everything is cut to the bone and the company relies on desperate people who need some money. I consider myself fortunate, but then I have built up valuable skills and experience.
I consider myself fortunate as well, but even know I see new people coming into where I work that don't have the same attitude or mentality. It's quite interesting. It's not even people around me, but people over me as well.
I think the main problem these days is that a lot of sectors are increasingly dominated by big corporations. Faceless brands with their often ridiculous policies and 'one size fits all' wage structuring. It's very difficult to be loyal to a company like that in my experience. On the other hand, I have had friends work for small privately owned businesses that were extremely loyal and actually felt good about it. One friend in particular told me that he stayed with a small business for 8 years longer than he intended to. Largely due to having a decent relationship with his boss and the recognition he got in the form of a Christmas bonus he'd receive each year.
I've been saying for a while now that one of my dream jobs would be the IT director for a small but successful company. I kind of have that now without the successful part ,but beggars can't be choosers right?
You're right there! Hopefully you can get the full package at some point. I work as a freelancer moderating social media. Freelancing has it's perks but it is a disaster in terms of financial stability. Although, I still prefer it to working for a shareholder controlled corporation that inevitably squeezes it's staff for everything it can. From what I've heard, the German economic model seems to be one of the better ones. Generally, they have shorter working days but greater productivity during working hours. Their employee health benefits also lead to many less people being 'on the sick' too. It's a balance that fosters loyalty and respect both ways, seemingly without sacrificing productivity. I'd love to see more of that work culture in the UK.
Haha, I can't tell you the number of times that I have been sick and felt like I was on my death bed, but there I was sitting at my desk at work because of my work ethic. Does that show dedication or does it just show that I am being taken advantage of. Freelance work sounds like it has it's perks for sure!
I disagree that there was a shift in the relationship between employers and employees. I think the shift was just in your perception of the situation.
Really? I mean I know I was probably making a few generalizations, but the idea of loyalty just doesn't seem the same to me. On both sides of the equation.
I mean that the loyalty you saw before was perceived, not real. Even at peak worker happiness, most workers are never so happy that they won't leave for more money, and we all know that if you quit or get fired, any employer will have your job posted before you exit the parking lot.
It's just my opinion, but I think the only thing that changed is the veil of civility.
Okay, I got ya. There is definitely no civility anymore!
I'm with you on that man! There was something I saw a while ago that really resonated with me.
"At the end of the day who is going to remember the long hours, the missed parties, the missed sporting events and the missing person: your company or your family? Do what you can but don't kill yourself day in and day out, because it impacts your family long-term and your company won't remember any of it."
I have absolutely changed some things in this regard. I've taken steps to modify my work style to end when it ends and that's it. Yes I could work into the wee hours of the night but then it takes time away from my wife and son. Do I get extra compensation for something they don't factor into my salary? Nope!
One of the reasons I switched jobs, and would switch jobs again if push came to shove, is that I needed my leadership to support me in a decision. They flat-out refused to do so and I knew that it wasn't worth it at the end of the day. I also knew I made the right decision because when I left that company, my director, who was the CIO mind you, didn't SAY A WORD. My 2nd to last day was a department-wide meeting where they would normally say people are moving on. Not a fucking PEEP from that asshole. At that point I knew I 150% made the RIGHT decision. The late hours and all that shit I did for them, all went down the toilet when they truly didn't care about me at the end of the day. That was a real eye-opener.
Just keep this type of stuff in mind as you are doing, and make it a point to just keep your resume up to date. You never want to be caught off-guard and you will feel empowered by having the upper hand.
Yeah, that is a good point .I have been there long enough that I think I would be okay, but it's still a very fine line between giving everything for nothing and actually making a difference.
Yeah I was with my last organization for over 10 years, and that's how they treated me at the end.
At the end of the day how we make a difference is for the end-users. They will remember us, not the company or management. We just make as good of a day for them as we reasonably can, and do it consistently and we are better off.
That is horrible. I've made it a point to try and develop a relationship with the board members where I work. I didn't do that at my last job and when it was time to make cuts, they let me go with little hesitation. I think this time it would be a harder decision for them.
Yeah I feel the same way. And thanks for not just blaming generations. I'm so damn tired of it. I don't even remember knowing the name of my generation until I was in my 30s. The way most people slag other generations these days is just dumb and ignorant.
Now GET OFF MY LAWN!! ;)
!PIMP
I totally agree. I'm not a boomer, but I can't even remember the need to assign a name to any of the generations before recent. I think Gen X was kicked around and baby boom was definitely a term in the textbooks but it was more of a concept, not an identifier.
I could remember when I was teaching, I had passion for teaching kids so I would put in all my sweat. Yes my salary wasn't indicative of it.
I thought I had the same mindset that if anything goes wrong with me , I would be Replaced ASAP till I met my friend, a doctor who had some issues and he left his patients just to Rest.
He said his patients didn't die and he was able to catch up with them the next day.
Inasmuch as we display loyalty in our places of work by putting in the best , our self should be priority
That is a good point. Self care is very important and going the extra mile at the expense of your health is probably not a good idea.
Tough issue with many sides. On one hand I think as companies have gotten bigger and bigger in the US, they have increasingly abused their workers. Wages have been stagnant since the 1970s despite increased profits. Yet especially since COVID, companies seem to be pushing employees even harder, making them work longer and harder. I am not at all surprised to see a lot of people just opting out of the system, saying basically "you don't pay me enough to survive already, then you expect me to do more for less. I'm gone". Loyalty goes both ways, after all, and it seems like companies stopped being loyal to employees a long time ago. I know unions are starting to (finally) increase again in the US, but I honestly don't think this will do much to help the issue. When we have Trump praising Musk for how badly he treats his workers and applauding him for firing them, and we have other republicans telling corporate leaders that AI will allow them to get rid of all their employees, I just don't see this issue getting better anytime soon.
On the other side, it does seem like a lot of younger people aren't interested in trying to help the situation. I'm like you, if doing something at home without pay will make my job easier, I will probably do it at home. But I don't think that is an attitude shared by many younger folks. Then again, because of the above, that might just be completely souring them to even trying.
I don't know. Complicated issue.
Yeah, it's definitely complex. I am glad my ramblings have gained more interest than I thought they would. The way I see it, I am either going to need to deal with the issue now or later, so why not just get it out of the way. At least most of the time anyway. Then again, the expectations are pushing even people like me to say "no way" more often.
I think like other commenters have said, there is not much incentive to perform more than what is needed to get your salary at most places. I think this is due to the effects of government/fiat money. When you pay 50% in taxes or deductions, each incremental earning is heavily taxed to not be worth the effort, be it time or just performance.
Alternatively, it could just be sign of decadence in that people have just become lazy and expect something for nothing. Look at the rise of social security, it was shameful to be on welfare when i was growing up, now it seems the "in" thing.
That's kind of my point though. There shouldn't need to be an incentive should there? You should want to do a good job because you take pride in what you do. I guess anyway. It's definitely an interesting subject with a lot of facets.
I agree with you there. Would you be so keen to do you job on half the wages though? Many jobs are minimum wage and although I personally would still do a good job, others may not feel the same.
Yeah, that is a good point. I actually used to complain all the time that I didn't get paid enough to do certain things. I can definitely be part of the problem at times!
Companies don't value loyalty as much anymore. I jumped from job to job early in my career before opening my own business and working for myself. By far the best thing I had ever done, yes more stress, but being your own boss is awesome.
Things were much better when we were kids, thee eighties were an awesome time to be a kid. I don't even recognize my country anymore, it's changed so much... Sorry, got off point there, senility kicking in!
I think its' admirable that you've stayed so long with them, I never stayed with a company very long until I owned it.
I think my big issue with being your own boss is you still don't feel like your time is your own. I really feel like you should, but for some reason you don't. For example, I do computer work on the side. I always get a little annoyed when someone calls and needs something. Simply because I just want to go home, but I can't leave my client hanging, so I need to head to help them out. I don't like that feeling. It would probably be different if I didn't have the full time job too.
Both parties should gain! Better employees result from treating others with respect. If you treat them nicely, they could be more inclined to go above and beyond. In a situation when the corporation depends on desperate individuals in need of money and the job requires little talent, things can be different.
I count myself lucky; I have acquired useful knowledge and expertise. I've stayed with my company since college.
@bozz That you have remained with them for so long is admirable, in my opinion.
Thanks, I appreciate that. It's definitely a fine line and things have certainly changed from when I first started in this field.
When we look at the companies that are growing today, it's all because of the value the company places on its employees and the compensation they receive for their work. As an employee, if you are doing the best of the task assigned to you, it will surely attract someone's attention. From that moment on, you will have started your career. Especially in sales-based companies, the customer portfolio and the company's earnings are more important than the employees. We can never think that these companies can be loyal to an employee.
I guess. I mean, do you really think it's only the companies where the workers are happy that are successful? I think there are probably a lot of companies that put profit first and they do quite well despite how the workers feel. I like your scenario better for sure!
@bozz I was very like you. Very loyal to my job. I worked for a company that started going global when I was a year or two in the job so I flew up the ladder. The company has now come to the states and it is called Primark. You may have one coming to your city soon. Anyway I worked all over Europe for them and it was time to come back home and settle down. Now I was a lifer and I would put the job before anyone else but when I came home , they could only put me in their head office so I left them. I remember painting my new house back in my home town thinking, its over . All that stress , work and now I'm just painting a house. I got a job with another company and they asked me to go for a job interview for a promotion not long after I joined them. They asked me to do a presentation about my life. I was proud of my previous work achievements so obviously alot of my presentation was about my career. In the feedback the interviewer took me in and said that my work balance was off the charts but I didn't really have much going on in my personnel life. Nothing exciting. Nothing interesting . My mouth was actually open with the shock. At first I was pissed off . So from that day on I have never taken work too seriously and focused more on the home life. Got a new job again. One that works around me. I do my posts on Hive there for example. It pays the bills but I am not as career driven as I first was. I look at Primark now and some of my lower management are all heads of countries. One is actually the head of USA and they were of no great shakes when I was there. But I'm quite happy with my decision. It was a Steve Jobs deathbed moment that interview for me.
I am a firm believer that my time is way more valuable than my money. I've really come to realize that with my current job. I might not get paid as much as the private sector, but I can sit and be on Hive all day and still get my work done and make a difference in the lives of kids. I'm glad you landed somewhere that works well for you!
The current day job market is tricky, especially for GenX'rs. I fell into the trap in my corporate career of being labeled a "work horse", someone who always went above and beyond and it was very much to my own detriment. Like the previous generation, I felt I'd stay at Securian my entire career, climb the ladder, and retire. This really limited my potential for career growth. On the other hand, my brother chose a different path, he gave 150% but also wasn't afraid to change jobs if something better came along. He made himself into a free-agent of sorts and companies were competing for him. He's ended up MUCH better because of his approach. I think it's extremely hard to move high up the ladder with a single employer these days. Our generation was a transitional one that still believed in this kind of employer-employee loyalty. I can't help but wonder if we'll ever see that kind of environment again?
I have a feeling we will not. I definitely think my employer takes advantage of me because they know I am not going to go anywhere with so little time before I retire. They also probably wonder if anyone else would take me given my interpersonal skills. I've actually learned to say no quite a bit lately and I think people consider me difficult because of that, but I'm not going to sit here and do everyone else's job for them.
I have been working for the same company for 24 years now, but during all those years I have developed into the 'employee' that I am now. It is not entirely comparable to a regular job because I often work on external assignments. I consider myself very loyal to my employer, but especially to my clients. I always go the extra mile than my colleagues, and not to brag or anything, no, because I really like my job and I think it is great to see when an assignment has been successfully completed. For me, that means that I work quite a few hours, but I do that myself. Nobody forces me to do that. On the other hand, I do not feel bad if I have to go somewhere in between or something like that. I now work at a healthcare institution and a government institution. And those are two completely different cultures. In the Netherlands they say "civil servants are lazy", I will not tar them all with the same brush, but that is the case. In the past, government employees were very protected, once you were working at an institution you could stay there your whole life regardless of how productive you were. That has changed over the years, and that's a good thing.
Of course I like that I earn a nice penny with my work, but I think it's more important to get satisfaction from my work. That I drink a beer in the evening, think about the day and then can say "Yes, this was another beautiful day".
That is cool that you have found a place that you enjoy and you are able to excel there. I am not complaining about my job. I just think it is interesting how different people in the same organization can feel differently about where they work. It's sad to see so many people just skating by and there being no repercussions.
True, I see them a lot too. I can;t imagine getting satisfaction out of that.